Communities Scrutiny Committee - Tuesday 16 December 2025, 7:00pm - Epping Forest District Council webcasts

Communities Scrutiny Committee
Tuesday, 16th December 2025 at 7:00pm 

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Cllr Jodie Lucas - 0:00:01
Tuesday, the 16th of December.
I would like to remind everyone present
that this meeting will be recorded live
and will be capable of repeated viewing
or another use by such third parties.

1 WEBCASTING INTRODUCTION

Therefore, by entering the council chamber
and using the seating area,
you are consenting to being filmed
and to the possible use of those images and sound recordings
for webcasting and or training purposes.
So, as I said, welcome to the Scrutinies community.
This is an extra meeting.
So I do appreciate all of your attendance
and I do understand that those that couldn't be here
because it was an extra meeting
and it is very close to Christmas.
Most of you know, my name is Councillor Jodie Lucas.
I'll be chairing this evening's meeting.
I do not have a vice chairman this evening
and here we also have to my right,
Serena Sharni from Democratic Services
and we have Matt Pickin on the webcast in this evening.
To my left, Nicola Soyers, which is head legal and deputy monitoring officer.
To her left, Dawn Harrison, which is our housing service director.
And to her left is Charlotte Wright, who's housing strategy and information officer.
We also welcome this evening, Sonia and officer Ryan.
who Sonia is here this evening observing as hopefully a co -opted member to the committee,
if she is still interested after this evening, which will be approved at Council following
this meeting.
And then we may also have Jen who will be online at some point, who is our strategic
Director and Deputy CEO. So that's all of the introductions. So welcome everybody and
I will now move to the apologies for absence.

2 APOLOGIES FOR ABSENCE

Serena Shani - 0:02:03
Councillor Markem, Councillor Sharif and Councillor Lee.
Thank you Chairman. Can I give apologies for lateness for Councillor Morgan please.
Cllr Jodie Lucas - 0:02:13
Thank you.
Substitute members.

3 SUBSTITUTE MEMBERS

Serena Shani - 0:02:18
Councillor Whitehouse for Councillor Sharif.
Thank you.
Cllr Jodie Lucas - 0:02:26
Declarations of interest.
None.

4 DECLARATIONS OF INTEREST

Notes of the previous meeting.

5 NOTES OF PREVIOUS MEETING

So we've got the notes of the previous meeting
from the Tuesday, the 7th of October.
We have the minutes.
Does we have any questions or can they be agreed?
Thank you.

6 WORK PROGRAMME

We have our work programme on pages three and four of the agenda.
We have a couple of amendments to note.
So there were some questions from the committee
on the timing of the tenant satisfaction measures report,
which would go to committee to let you know if it was,
and I would like to let you know that it was decided
that the January meeting will allow for the collation
of the reports and a production of the meaning report
to be put to committee rather than being considered
this evening.
And the other items that will be considered in January
are the housing compliance policies,
is social housing letters report Council Development Programme, sorry, they're all to be considered
this evening. And in addition, there are new items to the work plan for January. Sorry,
it's getting a bit confusing, but it is all documented in the work programme that is in
front of you. And the only difference is that the garage
garage lettings policy is now going to be moved to March to allow it to be closer to
the end of the financial year as there are some implications that are currently being
reviewed by officers. March's general work programme has been given to external agencies
other than that garage lettings policy. We have got QALYST in March. There is a little
items in the work programme.
So I have been in discussion with Democratic Services
to make sure that we do cover all of the items.
And obviously we had to add in this evening's
extra meeting questions, please.
Councillor Murray.
Cllr Stephen Murray - 0:04:50
Thank you for those discussions you've had with officers
and the changes that have been made.
They make eminent sense.
I perhaps want you to have another discussion
in the next two working days. Could we have an assurance, and I can't think where else
I could ask this tonight, on the Council agenda for Thursday, we've got the calendar of meetings.
And if I remember correctly, we've certainly got more communities on the calendar of meetings
that's going to fool Council than we did last year, which I think we had three. I stood
up and said, that's ridiculous, blah, blah, blah. I think we've either, from memory, there's
I just can't remember. I think it's more likely to be four than five.
But we've certainly got a calendar of meetings. Could I ask you, Chairman,
perhaps in relationship with officers, because it will mirror our programme this year,
just to be able to satisfy ourselves on Thursday night, that the number of meetings that are being
suggested for communities in that calendar and when they are being held all the time of the year,
rather than the precise date is what makes sense for our likely programme of work.
Because I will be asking that question for Council and it would be great if you could give us insurance.
Cllr Jodie Lucas - 0:06:13
Yeah thank you. Thank you for that contribution Councillor Murray and I fully support you and I
will support you at Council on Thursday. I will ensure if there's been conversations that I will
have before then to make sure that officers are satisfied
with the amount that have been put in.
I do appreciate that that may mean
that there are some longer meetings,
but as long as they aren't too long, it's okay.
I just, I felt this year,
we didn't want to cram too many policies in
because it's important to scrutinise them properly.
So hence why we added this additional meeting.
So I will make sure that that is proposed
for the forward coming year.
Cllr Rose Brookes - 0:06:54
Councillor Brooks. My query was just to double cheque that the tenancy and
succession policy we're still going to deal with that in the January meeting.
Cllr Jodie Lucas - 0:07:07
Confirmed. Okay. Thank you. Councillor Morgan. I was just to give apologies for being late.
Cllr Lisa Morgan - 0:07:14
Sorry I was at my normal lighting and I have no declarations of interest. Thank you
very much.
Cllr Jodie Lucas - 0:07:21
Sorry, I should have given that at the beginning, but should the meeting go on past eight o 'clock,
Cllr Shane Yerrell - 0:07:27
I will need to leave just after because I've got to go back to work to do medication.
I just didn't want to get up and walk out.
Thank you.
No problem.
Cllr Jodie Lucas - 0:07:35
Okay, so with all of those updates to the amended work programme, can that please be
noted?
And then we will now move to the main item,
what the first main item of this evening,

7 Social Housing Annual Lettings Report 2024-25

which is the social housing annual lettings report,
which is pages 10 to 32 of the agenda,
which will be introduced by Councillor Smooty Patel
as the housing portfolio holder.
Thank you, chair.
Cllr Smruti Patel - 0:08:02
Firstly, I'd just like to say welcome to Charlotte,
right to her first meeting in the chambers.
I'm sorry if I put you on the spot,
but I think we welcome you.
It's a first time experience.
I think it's really valuable that all the officers get
this experience as well.
So glad you're here.
And she's actually the best person
to answer any questions regarding this report.
She's put together.
See what I did there?
So she's helped put this together substantially.
She's really brilliant at that.
So just to introduce this report,
I'll do a short talk on it.
and then we'll file any questions from you guys.
So this report provides the annual update
on our lettings of social housing
in the 2024 -25 financial year,
and also covers the demand for social housing
at the 31st of March, 2025.
The regulator for social housing requires
that we let our homes in a fair, transparent
and efficient way.
Excuse me.
And this report is a key factor in demonstrating
that we comply with that requirement as well as complying with our housing allocation scheme,
which will be reviewed in 2026 ready for expiry of the current scheme in 2027. The annual
rent lettings report is comprehensive and covers EFDC social housing stock and lettings
in other social housing provides stock, i .e. housing associations. So the update includes
the number and size of social rented properties
that were led to qualifying households,
typical waiting times, summaries of information on age
and mobility needs of the applicants who are rehoused,
the numbers of applicants on a housing register
since March, 2021, and a variety of other data
and commentary.
So yeah, welcome to your questions.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Cllr Jodie Lucas - 0:09:59
Where do we want to start with questions?
Councillor Murray.
I've got a couple of questions and some points.
Cllr Stephen Murray - 0:10:06
I thought this was an excellent report.
I really enjoyed reading it.
It fitted in with my experience as a ward councillor in terms of the case work that
I'm dealing with around housing and I thought it was really good and as I say understandable.
The first thing I just want to make public comment to, because you often hear ill -informed
comments about this, and it was good just to be reminded about the priority that members
of the armed forces or former service personnel get within our banding system.
Members can read, so I won't highlight that, but reading those pages, just reminded of
that because you hear some Facebook comments and you almost think that they are bottom
of the list and you couldn't get more inaccurate than that.
Another comment I wanted to make was on page 17. I thought that was a very good decision
and I know Councillor Brooks was dealing with an issue within her own board around this.
I thought it was a very good decision to extend the legacy rights move.
Again, I won't go into the details of how that arose and exactly what that means because
it's outlined on page 17, but it did make considerable common sense to move those legacy
rights, bearing in mind at that time 28 new homes in Waltham Abbey were coming on board.
so I thought that was a good move by the Council.
My first question, Chairman, is again on page 17, and it is management transfers.
As a member, those are becoming more, coming across my inbox far more, and I realise that
they could be used by people who are in desperate housing situations in terms of bidding in
normal way in terms of overcrowding to try and help their case. But equally I've had
people come to me who, to my way of thinking, have got a very, very, very good reason for
management transfers and they don't seem to have got one. So I know each case is probably
different and therefore I'm asking a question. It's quite difficult to have a very precise
answer, but what kind of evidence is required and to what level of detail and so on is required
for there to be a successful management transfer? I know it can involve the health, it can involve
police and so on, but as I say, I've had cases where to my layman's eye, the evidence that
they have had from their doctor.
Some police reports that I have shared with me
seems quite strong,
and yet they haven't had a management transfer.
So it's really what type of evidence
and what's the level of threshold,
if that's a possible question that can be answered.
But I do know each case is obviously an individual case.
Thank you.
Will this go to you, Charlotte?
Cllr Jodie Lucas - 0:13:30
No. Okay, Dawn.
Charlotte Wright - 0:13:34
Cllr Jodie Lucas - 0:13:36
Dawn Harrisson - 0:13:37
You're right, Councillor. Each case is looked at on a case -by -case basis and it would be
very difficult to identify the actual thresholds for each case. But in terms of management
transfers, if we look at medical, we would have a medical assessment and that medical
assessment would have to do that the current property would not be suitable and a recommendation
for the type of property that would be suitable.
In terms of other reasons, it could be a threat to life
that means that the person would need to move
from their property.
Now we do have cases where a management transfer
has been approved, but we are sourcing properties.
So it's not always an immediate resolution
to be able to move somebody straight away.
I will have a look and see if we do have any narrative
around what constitutes a management transfer
and show it with the committee after this meeting.
Cllr Jodie Lucas - 0:14:31
Cllr Stephen Murray - 0:14:32
I will ask one follow -up question. I know it is a multi -agency meeting. Do you operate
in the sense that you hope a consensus emerges or in the end, there is a difference of opinion,
is it housing that will always in the end influence the decision or are you just hoping
a professional consensus will emerge across the agencies.
Dawn Harrisson - 0:15:00
With MARIC, with multi -agencies, then a general consensus would be achieved and it wouldn't
necessarily be down to housing. Each agency would have their views, but MARIC isn't used
for all instances of management transfers. If it's a medical issue, it would be based
on the recommendations by the medical professionals, but ultimately housing can override that decision
if they think that the medical assessor has not taken everything into account and we could
make the decision to offer a management transfer.
Cllr Jodie Lucas - 0:15:29
Cllr Stephen Murray - 0:15:30
Thank you, I have got questions that I have wanted to report. There might be members who
have got questions based on the earlier pages, but I have got some questions around the numbers
later on. I defer to other members at this stage.
Thank you. Councillor Nierukki.
Cllr Chidi Nweke - 0:15:47
Thank you, Chair. It's just a follow -up question to my colleagues, a question in terms of management
transfer. In terms of trade to life, what is the way it's given to that? What defines
trade to life? I'm asking this question because I've dealt with a very distressing case where
the residents clearly feel unsafe in the property where she's living but it took a lot of effort
to accept her application for management move. Is that what you call it? Management move?
And it took a lot of meetings and requests before it was accepted. My question here is
how do you define trade to life? Is it a police report or what gives weight to that?
I will go to Jen Gold online first.
Thank you.
I wonder if it is helpful to give a bit of detail.
Dawn is right in that every case has its merits and it is difficult to give you a hard and
fast threshold to meet.
As a general rule of thumb, when we are looking at management transfers and what constitutes,
the severity of the situation in order to move, largely it's around the test of homelessness.
So if someone, for example, were to come and present to a local authority as homeless,
would their situation constitute their homelessness? So would we, with that test of homelessness,
consider them to be homeless because it was unreasonable for them to return, either because
they've got, as Dawn says, a medical problem
or because it is unsafe for them to do so.
And that is the sort of general level of kind of threshold
that officers look at when they're looking at
whether or not somebody would require
a management transfer move.
And the other thing that needs to be considered, of course,
is can we, by moving that person,
can we significantly mitigate the risks? So if for example somebody is at you
know under threat where they currently live but the threat within the
district would still remain high that might not be the right mitigation in any
event and it might be that we need to support that some that person in a
different way. So it is it's not just about the threat it's also about whether
we can mitigate that to an acceptable standard
by moving them.
So I hope that's helpful.
Thank you, thank you.
Cllr Jodie Lucas - 0:18:37
Dawn, would you like to reply?
I think James is gonna have that one.
Okay.
Thank you.
Councillor Brooks.
Thank you very much.
Cllr Rose Brookes - 0:18:49
I haven't dealt with a case very recently,
but I have dealt with cases that have been
moved. One of my concerns is that sometimes when you get a lot of antisocial behaviour
from a tenant that is bothering the neighbours, that I just feel sometimes I wonder if, and
I hear they've been moved somewhere else in the district, that we are sort of still housing
people whose behaviour is very anti -social and just something that sometimes concerns
me. Because I know we don't want lots of evictions for obvious reasons, but sometimes I just
wonder if we're tough enough sometimes on the anti -social behaviour from the problems
I've seen. Sorry.
Cllr Jodie Lucas - 0:19:46
Dawn Harrisson - 0:19:59
It's quite difficult with antisocial behaviour cases. They're managed by a community safety
team and the enforcement is undertaken by a tenancy team. You certainly need a lot of
evidence and consistent evidence for a judge to actually be able to give possession on
cases of antisocial behaviour. There's huge amounts of information gathering required.
So again, it is on a case -by -case basis. There is no particular threshold, but it's all based
on the information that we can get from victims of antisocial behaviour, and then that leads
into what actions that we can actually take against those people.
Cllr Jodie Lucas - 0:20:40
Cllr Smruti Patel - 0:20:48
I think in the last policy that we introduced as well, we did say that we would be a lot
stricter in terms of evicting people if there was antisocial behaviour as well as other
issues as well. So in a way, we have tightened the policy a little bit, so maybe that would
help us I think in future but that is something to watch out for we'll make a
note of it. Thanks. Thank you. Councillor Whitehouse. Thank you Cher.
Cllr Janet Whitehouse - 0:21:12
Yes my questions on page 17 about the issue of moving from flats to houses.
Does this mean that there is no way in which someone can move from a flat to a
now because it seems so unfair that someone who may have had to move to a
flat because of circumstances at a time can never ever move to a house because
it's always going to be that the housing they have is you know suitable for their
their needs. I remember talking about this years ago but just want to know
whether that is what's happening now there's just no possibility if you live
in a flat and the accommodations adequate you're ever going to be able to
Dawn Harrisson - 0:21:57
the house. If the housing is adequate then that probably is likely to be the
case. If there's overcrowding then people can register for larger properties and
they may be successful in bidding but if people are living in in flats and want
to move to houses then the recommendation that we make is that
people register for mutual exchanges but that's the way that the policy was
designed and has, well, as I say, was approved previously in that regard.
Cllr Jodie Lucas - 0:22:23
Councillor Yerril. Thank you, Chairman. My question, sorry,
Cllr Shane Yerrell - 0:22:26
Dolan, coming back to you, it's just in regards to the management move. So I've had two residents
Cllr Shane Yerrell - 0:22:33
on my previous ward that went forward for a management move. One was rejected and one
was accepted. So my understanding is that if it's on medical grounds, then a medical
professional would make that decision. If it's on the basis of threat to life, how is
that decision made? I understand there's a panel. Does it come down to a majority vote
or is it on a point system before the move is awarded?
Dawn Harrisson - 0:22:59
I'm not sure about the panel or the point system. The medical recommendation is a recommendation
and we still have the ultimate decision on whether that proceeds or not. With a threat
to life, I think Jen's touched on that and it's about if moving somebody would remove
that risk from them and there's also dash assessments that are carried out in respect
of domestic violence without knowing the specific cases, it would be very difficult for me to
comment but there are various different ways that an assessment is made.
Jen did you want to add to that response?
Yeah, if I may. I think the thing to emphasise is that housing don't work in silo. Largely,
a lot of what housing does successfully relies on successful partnership work and there is
a mutual respect between the housing officers and our partner agencies, so people in the
abuse survivors, we work with chess and rough sleep providers for example and we take advice
from all of those different agencies when we're considering a case. So it is quite complex
when we're looking at management transfers particularly, but we have to, back to Councillor
Whitehouse's point about if you live in a flat, does that mean you can never live in
I think the difficulty is demand for social housing far outstrips supply and that has
been the case increasingly so for a number of years. So we are having to balance high
need with very limited stock often. Dawn is right, it's very difficult to talk in any
detail about individual cases, although we can do that separately where we have consent.
But please rest assured that we do take partnership approach and we do certainly take advice from
partners who work in safeguarding, for example, and make sure that we listen to those people
in technique.
Thank you.
Councillor Brooks.
Cllr Jodie Lucas - 0:25:07
Cllr Rose Brookes - 0:25:10
Just to say, thanks very much, Charlotte, you wrote the report, did you?
No, it was very informative, but also very sobering reading,
really, to be honest.
Just to note, sheer demand, as Jen has referred to,
against a very, very limited supply, really.
And also the question about affordability,
because I know from discussing recent cases, you know,
that families are staying sometimes who are needing
at least a three bed house in Norway House, sometimes over two years, which in the past
wouldn't have happened because three beds aren't available or because they don't pass
the affordability test for some of the market rents that are coming on the market as opposed
to our social rents really and that's just very regrettable really
unfortunately and I can see that rushed under that reduction of the discount to
buy people who just rushed to buy that's taken sadly I mean great for them but
taken even more stock away.
Cllr Jodie Lucas - 0:26:31
I think that noted, I don't know if there's any more comments, but yeah, I think very
true what you just said, Councillor Brooks.
Councillor Murray.
Yeah, couple of questions please around other parts of the report.
Cllr Stephen Murray - 0:26:43
And I'm using part of the report to then ask questions related to that.
On page 18, it says that there was an increase
in registered providers because of the development of one,
particularly because of one development.
Would I be right in thinking that would be Luton's Close?
And there is a reason why I ask that.
You're saying that, yeah, you're saying the figures
were higher for RP -lets and that's because particularly of one development, was that
Luckton's Close? Both me and Chilly represent that wall, do you see?
Yes it was.
Okay. And the reason I ask this question based around Luckton's Close because I think it's
going to be a growing problem, how clear are we when properties are described to tenants
that a bidding may be or when someone who is homeless gets their one offer about no
parking because I've had a number of people in these registered properties who have come
to me and felt they weren't aware that they had nowhere to park a car, which is clearly
a case in Luckton's Close.
The city can share the number of headaches we've had over that but we're not there to
discuss that in detail, but I just wanted to discuss the principle. So how clear are
we in terms of the bidding system and particularly in terms of homelessness situation where we
might be making one offer that the property has no parking because that's going to become
more and more common in new build developments. And certainly was the case in Luckton's close.
Dawn Harrisson - 0:28:42
When properties are advertised we should be really explicit and say that there is no parking
available but I will go away and double cheque on that. With regard to homeless households
the allocations policy was changed so we don't actually make direct offers any longer. Homeless
applicants can also bid so they should be aware and also when people are signing up
they should again be told that there are no parking arrangements but we should be explicitly
clear at the onset and when we're advertising but I will cheque and come back to you.
That's kind of reassuring, thank you. I thought that probably would be the case.
Cllr Stephen Murray - 0:29:14
And then my second question and last question I'll be pleased to know, Chairman, and I'm
desperately trying to find where it was on the report, but we are told somewhere further
down that just under 5 % of the allocations go to people outside the district. And I thought
I was a little bit high, bearing in mind—I am not saying the figure is inaccurate, it
just surprised me.
I know that there is an explanation, and quite rightly, that if people have to move out for
two years and they have already had a seven years residency, that is acceptable, and I
understand that.
But that cannot account for the whole of the five per cent, or nearly five per cent.
So on what other grounds are people from outside the district that do not have a seven years
residency, being able to get a property.
I'm assuming it might be old folk in hard to let properties,
but could I just have an explanation of that 4 .9 %
outside the district?
Thank you, Councillor Murray.
I think it's on page 19.
Cllr Jodie Lucas - 0:30:23
So the officers are just locating it
before they answer your question.
Charlotte will answer for you.
Hello.
Charlotte Wright - 0:30:33
So that will also include people from the SWL list so they don't have a residency criteria
so they could be from anywhere coming into our district as well.
Cllr Stephen Murray - 0:30:43
And would they only be able to bid on hard to let properties?
Charlotte Wright - 0:30:48
So they can only bid on the independent living properties, yeah.
And then if anyone on the register also bids on their properties they get priority over
people from the SWL list.
Cllr Stephen Murray - 0:31:02
Thank you again that's what you're showing. Thank you for your questions
Cllr Jodie Lucas - 0:31:04
Cllr Chidi Nweke - 0:31:08
Councillor Murray. Councillor Njuki. Thank you chair just going to the front page I
think is page number 11 is relating to the equality statement here that said
equality impact assessments carried out when the housing allocation scheme was
approved remains in place as states.
So I'm just wondering, how often is this looked into,
considering the current environment that we are in,
what impact will this have on equality?
For instance, I'm looking at a case where a resident is not
happy where she's living at the moment because of the fear and
the safety issues she's going through.
Now, this statement here for me might have impact on her decision
to leave where she is living at the moment because she doesn't feel safe because she
is a new convert to Islam and the racial and religious abuse she is receiving where she
lives.
With the statement here, what impact would I have on her?
Cllr Jodie Lucas - 0:32:11
Thank you for your question, Councillor Nauruki.
I just find out who is going to answer.
Dawn?
Dawn Harrisson - 0:32:23
So the equality impact assessment was done when the policy was first drafted and it's
due to be done again when we review the policy in 2026.
We don't usually carry out any impact equality assessments during that timeframe, but an
individual's case would be looked at as anybody else's case if there was an issue with where
they were living and they would come through to the rehousing team for that to be reviewed.
Thank you.
Is there any further questions?
Cllr Jodie Lucas - 0:32:52
Councillor Whitehouse.
Thank you.
Cllr Janet Whitehouse - 0:32:56
Mutual exchanges were mentioned in the answer to
my previous question, which reminded me of an
issue I dealt with.
Can you tell me what sort of information is given to
the person who's moving into the district with a
mutual exchange?
Because when you sell a house, you have to give
information about whether you've had to dispute with your neighbour or you know
there's all kinds of negative things around it. If there's anti -social
behaviour in that estate is that information given to the person who's going
to move in? You know what information they have before they make that big
Dawn Harrisson - 0:33:36
decision? I don't have all of the details of the criteria that are required
but we basically carry out a reference on the incoming tenant and where our
tenant is going, they carry out a reference as well on our tenant and I'm sure one of
the questions that asked is has there been any antisocial behaviour either by the tenant
or have they been in receipt of any antisocial behaviour. So it's not as robust as it would
be if you were selling a property but information is shared between the two parties but I can
certainly get the list of that and send it to you at a later stage.
Cllr Janet Whitehouse - 0:34:08
Yes, it's not just the individual concerned is it? It's the area and you might not have
the anti -social behaviour yourself but it might be in the estate which is going to put off a person
coming so yes if I could perhaps you could discuss it later on when we have a meeting.
Cllr Jodie Lucas - 0:34:23
Cllr Stephen Murray - 0:34:24
Councillor Murray. Yes I'm going to ask a similar question to what I asked at the last communities
committee and I probably will ask again running up to 28. As soon as we know our new housing authority
in terms of the new unitary authority, whether it's going to be mid -Essex, West
Essex, whatever it's going to be, is the intention to try and harmonise
housing allocation policies from the very start in May 28 when the new
authorities up and running or is there going to be a period of time where each
former district, if whole districts move on block, I certainly think that
in price will move on block, operate kind of within their own locality, or is the intention
as soon as we know what the unitaries are going to be, and I think that's going to be
early next year, isn't it, that we're going to know, is the intention that overworked
housing officers immediately get together and start harmonising policies for the new
members in 27, the shadow members in 27, to adopt,
ready for a 28 start.
Jen?
Cllr Jodie Lucas - 0:35:35
Yeah, thank you. I'll pick this question up.
So we think we're going to find out the 92 decision march,
I would suggest,
Not withstanding what the leadership of that new organisation will be and the priorities that they set,
I would be extremely surprised if housing was one of the first services to align in that way.
Not least because it's a massive amount of work.
So to align allocations policies and all of the varying housing policies that go with
it is no mean feat I would suggest and a huge amount of work to consult all of the relevant
parties, etc.
So I would, I mean I can't say obviously with any certainty and it probably won't be my
decision, but I would suggest that local authorities in their sort of old localities will continue
to operate in the way that we do now and the sort of alignment of housing services across
however many old districts will go into that new unitary will happen over the course of
probably a couple of years, I would imagine given the amount of work that that's going
to be. Having said all of that, if aligning housing policy and housing
allocations policies are a priority for that new administration and new
leadership, then obviously we would do that more quickly. But if you look at
LGR that's happened in other places, it's certainly not a one of the first that get
delivered.
Thank you very much for answering.
Thank you.
I don't believe there's any further questions.
No indication.
So thank you very much officers for the report and answering all of the questions.
That report is just for noting this evening, so we do not need to make any recommendations.

8 Housing Rent Setting and Income Recovery Policy

So we will now move to the housing rent setting and income recovery policy.
And again, we will have Councillor Smooty Patel to present the report.
Cllr Smruti Patel - 0:38:04
Hi everyone, thank you for the extensive review of our lettings report.
Housing rent setting and income recovery policy.
This policy explains how EFDC sets and collects rent for council homes, ensuring compliance
with legal standards while balancing affordability and investment in housing.
It covers social and affordable rent frameworks.
annual reviews based on CPI.
Income recovery focuses on early intervention to prevent
arrears with eviction as the last resort to sustain
tenancies.
From April 2026, a social rent convergence mechanism will allow
additional increases for properties below formula rent
to support fairness and future housing investments.
Thank you.
Cllr Jodie Lucas - 0:38:55
Thank you. I will now move to members' questions or comments.
Seems that everybody is quite happy with the proposal.
I wouldn't say I am happy with the affordable rents, but it is a given in the context that
Cllr Stephen Murray - 0:39:20
we're working. So, but I don't want you to take silence as happiness.
Cllr Jodie Lucas - 0:39:26
Right, okay. Noted Councillor Murray. Okay, I take it that there are no comments to be
made. So with that, this will move to cabinet. So there won't be any recommendations from
this committee. So that will just move to cabinet now for approval. Thank you. The next

9 Council Housing Development - Prisoners Building Homes

item is council housing development, prisoners building homes pages 45 to 56 and we will
Cllr Smruti Patel - 0:39:59
have um councillor Smooty Patel. Thank you chair this is a very um interesting and an
unusual one as well for us so um I'm really looking forward to see how we can go about
putting this in action and have an impact on it. So we've got the prisoners building
Homes Initiative which provides several positive attributes and opportunities
for our council to benefit from. The council has a responsibility to provide
new affordable housing stock for the district so to provide the additional
avenues of development this allows the council to expand its pipeline of
development sites and reassess sites that were previously unviable. This
programme unlocks small and challenging development sites, enables faster
lower cost housing delivery through modular construction,
create significant social value through employment,
rehabilitation, and victim support funding,
aligns with the council's housing, climate,
and community safety priorities, and offers access to PBH
pre -development funding to de -risk schemes as well.
So there's a lot of benefits with this policy that we've got
coming to us, and yeah, I look forward to seeing
how it all pans out.
Cllr Jodie Lucas - 0:41:12
Cllr Stephen Murray - 0:41:14
Councillor Morgan. I'd just like to say thank you for bringing
it for us because I think it's a fantastic idea.
Cllr Lisa Morgan - 0:41:18
Councillor Newarke, was that an indication? No, sorry.
Cllr Chidi Nweke - 0:41:24
Cllr Janet Whitehouse - 0:41:28
Councillor Whitehouse. Thank you. Yes, I think it's a very good
idea but could you say a bit more about these modular homes, what they're like? I don't
But also somewhere it says that one of the problems with these small garage sites is
absolutely cost effective because they're only small.
And somewhere else it says that we might use another property company that has bigger sites.
I'm not quite sure how the prisoner one fits in.
Is this part of a bigger programme or is this just us doing one site?
Dawn Harrisson - 0:42:07
This is us just doing one site initially and the modular homes, they're like pre -constructed
so they're not your traditional build of bricks.
They're prefabricated, they are easy to assemble and they can fit into smaller spaces.
The site that's talked about here I think is about 10 garage sites there but it's a
very narrow entrance to it so the modular homes there would fit quite well and using
the prisoner building scheme, it just means that the costs to us are kept low because
they will undertake the assessments and look at the feasibility of different sites.
I know what some modular homes are, but can you say a bit more about their size? You say
it fits into a smaller site. Is that because of the way it's built you don't need so much
space or are they smaller houses because it's a smaller site?
Cllr Janet Whitehouse - 0:43:01
We haven't any information on what these houses are going to be like.
Dawn Harrisson - 0:43:06
They are to standard size so they're not smaller than the homes that we build.
They have to meet certain standards. I don't have the details here but I can certainly circulate those afterwards.
Cllr Smruti Patel - 0:43:20
Because it's already pre -built so where you've got low access and all the big vehicles can't get in and out of,
This is an advantage where the majority of the build inside internal stuff is all done up and the whole thing will just get
Landed onto the site and then get connected with all the plumbing and everything else. Yeah
So yeah, I'm looking forward to just as much as you can so I tell
Thank you that councillor Murray
Cllr Jodie Lucas - 0:43:45
Cllr Stephen Murray - 0:43:47
Contribution is a mixture of commentary and questions
Let's try and do the questions first.
Am I right in thinking I read somewhere in the report
that we would be the first authority in Essex to do this?
Is this a scheme?
The first in Essex, yes, but not the first in the country.
OK.
Dawn Harrisson - 0:44:03
Can I, I mean, I'm very supportive,
Cllr Stephen Murray - 0:44:07
but can I just play devil's advocate for a minute?
If it's been used across the country
for a number of years already,
has the professional group or the housing press
picked up any negatives at all in any shape or form. Not that I'm aware of but
Dawn Harrisson - 0:44:25
I'll certainly ask the question and come back to you. And then I think the rest
Cllr Stephen Murray - 0:44:31
are just a couple of comments please. By the time I'd reached the bottom of page
49 I had been sold on this but I was very impressed by the figures and they
must be accurate. 92 % of prisoners who work on this initiative have secured employment
post release. That was a very impressive statistic. Also, the lower reoffending rate was very
impressive. I do not want members to think that I spend most of my time reading comments
on Facebook because I don't, because I would not urge people to do that because it is quite
upsetting and quite depressive.
But for once I was pleasantly surprised.
I read everything up in voice when they picked this up.
As soon as I read this I knew they were going to pick that up and make it an issue.
And I thought, the last time I looked at it, the amount of really positive comments saying,
and they probably hadn't read the report, they were just, you know, they are reports
I meant, I was really pleasantly surprised by the number of really positive comments
that thought this was a good idea and so on.
So my belief in Facebook is 1 % rather than 0 % now.
Cllr Jodie Lucas - 0:46:01
Thank you Councillor Murray. I don't think there was anything to come back on that one.
Cllr Chidi Nweke - 0:46:07
Councillor Nauruki. Thank you chair. I think one of my questions
my colleague has just answered that asked that question is around the feasibility studies
list, which shows the negative impact that might have in other council areas, which is
not picked up in this report. But that notwithstanding, I think it's a good idea. I really liked it.
But one concern that keeps coming up in my mind, because there's a lot of efficiency
savings here in the report, so I'm just asking myself, are we paying the prisoners below
below normal rates that goes on, or how are we getting these efficiency savings? Are they
paid normally, salary, or are they paid below rate? Because that would be a concern for
me if they are not getting adequate pay for the work they are doing.
Dawn Harrisson - 0:47:09
I believe there is something in the report. I can't remember off the top of my head what
it is, but it does actually talk about the pay in the paper. I will have a review of
that and come back to you.
Councillor Brooks.
Cllr Rose Brookes - 0:47:22
Yes, because for some years we've been talking
and we have done one or two of these developments
on the garage sites, the old garage sites.
Well, let's use, let's put it that way.
And in the report it talks about what was an issue
for us at the Epping Centre when we started building.
its contamination. And I know that when they were building the current new
leisure centre about to open they had a particularly detailed contamination
survey that was much more thorough than usual just in case it threw up further
problems. And I just wonder this particular site in Waltham Abbey what
made that particularly attractive to do it? I'm afraid I don't know Councillor
I will ask the question.
Dawn Harrisson - 0:48:12
Councillor Murray?
It might be helpful,
Cllr Stephen Murray - 0:48:17
and I don't know whether it answers my colleagues' question,
but I think the paragraph Dawn was referencing was 4 .2 on page 49,
which outlines that they do what they get paid.
And I also like the bit, prisoners pay tax.
So I think that probably answers the question,
but I'm not absolutely sure.
Thank you for that contribution, Councillor Murray.
I think you're right.
Cllr Jodie Lucas - 0:48:46
So hopefully that gives Councillor Nwoki
some satisfaction that they are paid
to the satisfactory rate.
Okay, I think we're finished with questions.
So we will move to our recommendation,
which is to recommend the report and policy,
including the spend to cabinet for their approval.
Do we agree?
Thank you.
And the next item this evening

10 Housing Compliance Policies

is the housing compliance policies,
which there's various policies involved
from pages 57 to 147.
So I will hand over to again
to Councillor Smoot to present.
Thank you, chair.
Cllr Smruti Patel - 0:49:34
This suite of compliance policies were agreed
actually by the cabinet in 2023 -24.
And we have reviewed them to ensure that they continue
to meet our statutory requirements
and good practise standards.
The housing compliance policies outline EFDC's commitment
to meeting those statutory and regulatory requirements
for housing safety and quality.
They emphasise adherence to health and safety standards,
including gas, electricity, fire, lifts,
fire safety lifts, water, and asbestos cheques,
as well as compliance with building regulations.
The policies also detail responsibilities for
maintaining accurate records, conducting
regular inspections, and ensuring timely remedial
actions to protect tenants and maintain legal compliance.
Additionally, the document highlights
accountability measures, specifying roles for
monitoring compliance and reporting performance.
It includes procedures for risk management,
contractor oversight, and to ensure that the
transparency and trust is maintained.
By implementing these policies,
the organisation aims to safeguard residents,
minimise risks and uphold its duty of care
while meeting all relevant housing legislation.
So those are the recommendations in front of you.
Thank you.
Cllr Jodie Lucas - 0:50:55
Thank you, Councillor Patel.
I'd also just like to add that, you know,
these are not new policies.
So just, I know that you were just mentioned there
about them being reviewed.
So it's just important to note that these are not new policies.
The council already have these policies in place.
So this is just the review for additional comments.
Councillor Murray.
Cllr Stephen Murray - 0:51:20
First of all, my papers seemed a little bit odd and it seems as if we were looking at
these twice, thank goodness we're not, but I think I've worked my way through it.
It's not a problem, but it was a bit odd when it came up on my iPad.
I've only got two questions and we've probably asked the questions before but they're real
questions within my world and I'm still not absolutely clear in my own mind.
But only two questions on all these policies and they're both on the fire safety one.
So on page 59, and as it's only a sentence I will read it, we will continue to adopt
a sterile environment approach in all internal common areas requiring tenants to remove combustible
materials from corridors and fire escape routes.
And I realise post -Grenville a lot of these have been upgraded.
I was still a little bit unclear what that means.
I'm absolutely clear what the second bit means,
requiring tenants to remove combustible materials
from corridors and fire escape routes.
And I think we would all accept that.
But a sterile environment to me means absolutely nothing.
But if you read it, and that's the first part,
but if you read the whole sentence itself,
as long as whatever is in the internal common area
is not combustible, then is that an issue?
And I'm talking perhaps maybe a doormat
or something that is on a,
perhaps a doormat isn't the best example
because you can trip on that.
But what about something that's non -combustible
combustible that's on the window ledge at the end of a communal corridor.
Would that be allowed? So what exactly do we mean by a sterile environment? Is it absolutely nothing
or it's got to be free of combustible materials? So that would be my first question.
Dawn Harrisson - 0:53:20
Thank you Councillor. So sterile does actually mean that there should be nothing at all in the
areas and everything is combustible, everything has a flashpoint and
everything can burn. I think it possibly is slightly misleading to use sterile
and non combustible possibly in the same sentence because it can cause confusion
and we should just remain with the word sterile and no items at all.
Cllr Stephen Murray - 0:53:47
Okay, I mean maybe that's the law but I just think that is over harsh but if
That's the law, that's the law, and we're not here to change the law.
And my second question is the one that is just below that, actually.
We will not permit the storeys of mobility scooters with internal common areas.
Again, I understand that, and that makes sense.
But what do we do, and perhaps I should know this, and I apologise for
my ignorance, but what do we do for what was formerly sheltered accommodation and
is still largely occupied by elderly people and therefore mobility scooters are more common.
Do we provide, like Parsonage Court for example in Loughton and they're all over the district,
Buckers Court in Councillor Brooks's ward, do we provide some kind of storage for mobility
scooters because I would have thought we're more likely to have a higher number of tenants
in a concentrated place that do have mobility scooters. So what do we provide if they can't
be in internal common areas?
Dawn Harrisson - 0:54:55
We will look to provide alternative storage solutions. I think we all are aware of the
dangers of lithium batteries and the consequences of those if they do catch a light. So we are
certainly looking at alternatives.
Cllr Jodie Lucas - 0:55:13
Cllr Lisa Morgan - 0:55:16
On page 77, 7 .2, the domestic properties, it says we currently hold survey data. When
people move into their new properties, do we explain to them that they are properties
with asbestos in and they shouldn't be drilling to put pictures up and things
onto some of the walls because I do know we do have this problem on the state
where we are and they didn't know there was asbestos in there they might well
have been told but it's just something that would be nice to know. Thank you.
I'll need to double cheque on the information that's provided to tenants
Dawn Harrisson - 0:55:54
that sign up but I'd like to think that tenants are absolutely advised before
that they do start drilling that they make cheques with us but I'll come back
Thank you very much. It's just that obviously you're told something doesn't
Cllr Lisa Morgan - 0:56:07
necessarily mean that's what happens but it would be nice for us all to know that
they are told that there is a risk of asbestos in these properties and what
they should and shouldn't be doing. Thank you.
Councillor Brooks, did you have a question?
Cllr Jodie Lucas - 0:56:21
Cllr Rose Brookes - 0:56:22
I did want to add it's the problem really of mobility scooters in our
independent living quarters because this is a real issue for people. Fortunately
it was one of my first issues I dealt with in the new ward. We did have in
Butkurst Court a garage that was not really used and the Denise Pegler
arranged for this to store some of the the scooters because it's a real issue
if you live in independent living and you can't have it in the lounge or
Cllr Jodie Lucas - 0:57:11
Cllr Janet Whitehouse - 0:57:14
anywhere else. Thanks. Thank you. Councillor Whitehouse. Thank you. Dawn mentioned the
lithium batteries. What do people do if they've got these bikes with the
Cllr Jodie Lucas - 0:57:26
batteries? Where do they store them? I believe that we do have some mobility
Dawn Harrisson - 0:57:29
scooter storage units already. Not mobility scooters, the ordinary e -bikes
Cllr Janet Whitehouse - 0:57:34
with batteries. The ones that we keep on seeing on the news are sort of, you know,
catching light. They are not permitted to be stored in people's properties
Dawn Harrisson - 0:57:41
because again we know the dangers that they have but people unfortunately do
Cllr Janet Whitehouse - 0:57:49
flout the rules. So you can't have in the property but you have to have one to get
to work, whatever.
Do we not help at all?
Where are you supposed to put it?
It's a good question.
I'll have to come back to you.
Dawn Harrisson - 0:58:00
Thank you.
Is there any other questions on the policies?
Cllr Jodie Lucas - 0:58:05
No, I would just personally like to add,
my profession is in health and safety.
So I've looked at these with some personal
knowledge and experience,
and I'm very happy to see that everything seems good
from my understanding and I'm very pleased
that they are again gonna be adopted.
So thank you.
Thank you for the work and putting them together
and reviewing them.
So I know it is a lengthy process.
So I believe that brings us to the end of this evening
which is ideal for Councillor Yerrel
who needed to leave at eight o 'clock.

11 DATES OF FUTURE MEETINGS

So I just would like to add that,
to note that the next meeting will be on the 13th of January.
And just once again, oh, Councillor Murray.
I only wanted to say on the lighter note
Cllr Stephen Murray - 0:58:58
how appreciative I was of Jenny Gould's
background screen tonight.
Very quick, I thought it was very Christmassy.
It's very festive, Councillor Murray.
I can get you one if you'd like.
And on that note, yeah, I would like to wish you all
Cllr Jodie Lucas - 0:59:14
a happy Christmas and thank you for coming this evening
this close to Christmas and have a safe journey home. And I'll close the meeting at 8 o 'clock
exactly. Thank you.
Cllr Rose Brookes
District councillor for Buckhurst Hill East and Whitebridge ward
Loughton Residents Association
View profile Cllr Rose Brookes
Dawn Harrisson
Service Director Housing & Property
Epping Forest District Council
View profile Dawn Harrisson
Cllr Jodie Lucas
District councillor for Waltham Abbey West ward
Conservative Party
View profile Cllr Jodie Lucas
Cllr Lisa Morgan
District councillor for Grange Hill ward
Independent
View profile Cllr Lisa Morgan
Cllr Stephen Murray
District councillor for Loughton Roding ward
Independent
View profile Cllr Stephen Murray
Cllr Chidi Nweke
District councillor for Loughton Roding ward
Loughton Residents Association
View profile Cllr Chidi Nweke
Cllr Smruti Patel
District councillor for Buckhurst Hill West ward
Conservative Party
View profile Cllr Smruti Patel
Serena Shani
Democratic Services Officer
Epping Forest District Council
View profile Serena Shani
Cllr Janet Whitehouse
District councillor for Epping East ward
Liberal Democrats
View profile Cllr Janet Whitehouse
Cllr Shane Yerrell
District councillor for Waltham Abbey West ward
Independent
View profile Cllr Shane Yerrell