Council - Thursday 28 May 2026, 7:00pm - Epping Forest District Council webcasts

Council
Thursday, 28th May 2026 at 7:00pm 

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  1. Cllr Louise Mead
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  1. Gary Woodhall
  2. Cllr Louise Mead
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  1. Cllr Louise Mead
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  1. Cllr Louise Mead
  2. Cllr Louise Mead
  3. Cllr Chris Whitbread
  4. Cllr Louise Mead
  5. Cllr Jon Whitehouse
  6. Cllr Louise Mead
  7. Cllr Barbara Cohen
  8. Cllr Louise Mead
  9. Cllr Jaymey McIvor
  10. Cllr Louise Mead
  11. Cllr Holly Whitbread
  12. Cllr Louise Mead
  13. Cllr Smruti Patel
  14. Cllr Louise Mead
  15. Andrew Small
  16. Cllr Louise Mead
  17. Cllr Alan Lion
  18. Cllr Louise Mead
  19. Cllr Jeane Lea
  20. Cllr Louise Mead
  21. Cllr Craig McCann
  22. Cllr Louise Mead
  23. Cllr Alan Lion
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  1. Cllr Jon Whitehouse
  2. Cllr Alan Lion
  3. Cllr Stephen Murray
  4. Cllr Alan Lion
  5. Cllr Tom Bromwich
  6. Cllr Alan Lion
  7. Cllr Louise Mead
  8. Cllr Alan Lion
  9. Cllr Roger Baldwin
  10. Cllr Alan Lion
  11. Cllr Tom Bromwich
  12. Cllr Alan Lion
  13. Cllr Jaymey McIvor
  14. Cllr Alan Lion
  15. Cllr Stephen Murray
  16. Cllr Alan Lion
  17. Gary Woodhall
  18. Cllr Stephen Murray
  19. Gary Woodhall
  20. Cllr Stephen Murray
  21. Cllr Alan Lion
  22. Gary Woodhall
  23. Cllr Alan Lion
  24. Cllr Louise Mead
  25. Cllr Alan Lion
  26. Cllr Chris Whitbread
  27. Cllr Alan Lion
  28. Cllr Chidi Nweke
  29. Cllr Alan Lion
  30. Cllr Jaymey McIvor
  31. Cllr Alan Lion
  32. Barbara Beardwell
  33. Cllr Alan Lion
  34. Cllr Jaymey McIvor
  35. Barbara Beardwell
  36. Cllr Jaymey McIvor
  37. Barbara Beardwell
  38. Cllr Alan Lion
  39. Gary Woodhall
  40. Cllr Alan Lion
  41. Cllr Alan Lion
  42. Cllr Alan Lion
  43. Cllr Howard Kauffman
  44. Cllr Alan Lion
  45. Cllr Alan Lion
  46. Cllr Janet Whitehouse
  47. Cllr Alan Lion
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  1. Gary Woodhall
  2. Cllr Alan Lion
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  1. Cllr Jodie Lucas
  2. Cllr Alan Lion
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  1. Cllr Chris Whitbread
  2. Cllr Sheree Rackham
  3. Cllr Chris Whitbread
  4. Cllr Alan Lion
  5. Cllr Stephen Murray
  6. Cllr Chris Whitbread
  7. Cllr Stephen Murray
  8. Cllr Graham Wiskin
  9. Cllr Chris Whitbread
  10. Cllr Alan Lion
  11. Cllr Tom Bromwich
  12. Cllr Chris Whitbread
  13. Cllr Jaymey McIvor
  14. Cllr Alan Lion
  15. Cllr Jaymey McIvor
  16. Cllr Annie May O'Neill
  17. Cllr Alan Lion
  18. Cllr Holly Whitbread
  19. Cllr Alan Lion
  20. Cllr Lisa Morgan
  21. Cllr Alan Lion
  22. Barbara Beardwell
  23. Cllr Stephen Murray
  24. Cllr Alan Lion
  25. Cllr Jon Whitehouse
  26. Cllr Alan Lion
  27. Cllr Mary Dadd
  28. Cllr Alan Lion
  29. Cllr Louise Mead
  30. Cllr Graham Wiskin
  31. Cllr Roger Baldwin
  32. Cllr Jaymey McIvor
  33. Cllr Alan Lion
  34. Cllr Darshan Sunger
  35. Cllr Alan Lion
  36. Cllr Jeane Lea
  37. Cllr Alan Lion
  38. Cllr Richard Cohen
  39. Cllr Alan Lion
  40. Cllr Nigel Bedford
  41. Cllr Alan Lion
  42. Cllr Sheree Rackham
  43. Cllr Alan Lion
  44. Barbara Beardwell
  45. Cllr Alan Lion
  46. Cllr Holly Whitbread
  47. Cllr Alan Lion
  48. Cllr Geoff Shaw
  49. Cllr Alan Lion
  50. Cllr Craig McCann
  51. Cllr Alan Lion
  52. Cllr Chris Whitbread
  53. Cllr Alan Lion
  54. Cllr Chidi Nweke
  55. Cllr Alan Lion
  56. Cllr Lisa Morgan
  57. Cllr Alan Lion
  58. Cllr Karen McIvor
  59. Cllr Alan Lion
  60. Cllr Howard Kauffman
  61. Cllr Alan Lion
  62. Cllr Annie May O'Neill
  63. Cllr Alan Lion
  64. Gary Woodhall
  65. Cllr Alan Lion
  66. Cllr Chris Whitbread
  67. Cllr Louise Mead
  68. Gary Woodhall
  69. Cllr Chris Whitbread
  70. Cllr Louise Mead
  71. Cllr Alan Lion
  72. Cllr Chris Whitbread
  73. Gary Woodhall
  74. Cllr Alan Lion
  75. Cllr Jon Whitehouse
  76. Cllr Chris Whitbread
  77. Gary Woodhall
  78. Cllr Chris Whitbread
  79. Cllr Stephen Murray
  80. Cllr Chris Whitbread
  81. Cllr Graham Wiskin
  82. Gary Woodhall
  83. Cllr Lisa Morgan
  84. Cllr Chris Whitbread
  85. Cllr Lisa Morgan
  86. Cllr Stephen Murray
  87. Cllr Alan Lion
  88. Gary Woodhall
  89. Cllr Jaymey McIvor
  90. Cllr Alan Lion
  91. Cllr Stephen Murray
  92. Cllr Alan Lion
  93. Cllr Graham Wiskin
  94. Gary Woodhall
  95. Cllr Louise Mead
  96. Cllr Chidi Nweke
  97. Cllr Louise Mead
  98. Cllr Alan Lion
  99. Cllr Jaymey McIvor
  100. Cllr Alan Lion
  101. Gary Woodhall
  102. Cllr Chris Whitbread
  103. Cllr Stephen Murray
  104. Cllr Jaymey McIvor
  105. Cllr Alan Lion
  106. Cllr Chris Whitbread
  107. Cllr Louise Mead
  108. Cllr Mandy George
  109. Cllr Alan Lion
  110. Cllr Chris Whitbread
  111. Gary Woodhall
  112. Cllr Stephen Murray
  113. Gary Woodhall
  114. Cllr Chris Whitbread
  115. Cllr Alan Lion
  116. Cllr Chris Whitbread
  117. Cllr Jon Whitehouse
  118. Cllr Alan Lion
  119. Cllr Michael Owen
  120. Cllr Alan Lion
  121. Gary Woodhall
  122. Cllr Alan Lion
  123. Cllr Chris Whitbread
  124. Cllr Louise Mead
  125. Cllr Chris Whitbread
  126. Cllr Louise Mead
  127. Cllr Chris Whitbread
  128. Cllr Alan Lion
  129. Cllr Lisa Morgan
  130. Cllr Alan Lion
  131. Cllr Chris Whitbread
  132. Cllr Alan Lion
  133. Gary Woodhall
  134. Cllr Alan Lion
  135. Cllr Alan Lion
  136. Cllr Alan Lion
  137. Cllr Chris Whitbread
  138. Cllr Louise Mead
  139. Cllr Chris Whitbread
  140. Gary Woodhall
  141. Cllr Chris Whitbread
  142. Gary Woodhall
  143. Cllr Alan Lion
  144. Cllr Rose Brookes
  145. Cllr Chris Whitbread
  146. Cllr Alan Lion
  147. Cllr Jon Whitehouse
  148. Cllr Chris Whitbread
  149. Cllr Stephen Murray
  150. Cllr Alan Lion
  151. Gary Woodhall
  152. Cllr Alan Lion
  153. Cllr Stephen Murray
  154. Cllr Chris Whitbread
  155. Cllr Graham Wiskin
  156. Cllr Chris Whitbread
  157. Gary Woodhall
  158. Cllr Jaymey McIvor
  159. Gary Woodhall
  160. Cllr Chris Whitbread
  161. Gary Woodhall
  162. Cllr Chris Whitbread
  163. Cllr Stephen Murray
  164. Cllr Chris Whitbread
  165. Cllr Richard Morgan
  166. Cllr Alan Lion
  167. Gary Woodhall
  168. Cllr Alan Lion
  169. Cllr Chris Whitbread
  170. Gary Woodhall
  171. Cllr Chris Whitbread
  172. Cllr Rose Brookes
  173. Cllr Chris Whitbread
  174. Cllr Richard Morgan
  175. Cllr Chris Whitbread
  176. Cllr Jon Whitehouse
  177. Cllr Chris Whitbread
  178. Cllr Alan Lion
  179. Gary Woodhall
  180. Cllr Alan Lion
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  1. Cllr Jon Whitehouse
  2. Cllr Alan Lion
  3. Matt Winslow
  4. Cllr Jon Whitehouse
  5. Matt Winslow
  6. Cllr Alan Lion
  7. Cllr Jon Whitehouse
  8. Cllr Alan Lion
  9. Cllr Stephen Murray
  10. Cllr Ken Williamson
  11. Cllr Mary Dadd
  12. Cllr Jaymey McIvor
  13. Cllr Alan Lion
  14. Matt Winslow
  15. Cllr Jaymey McIvor
  16. Cllr Alan Lion
  17. Cllr Mary Dadd
  18. Cllr Alan Lion
  19. Cllr James Abbott
  20. Cllr Alan Lion
  21. Cllr Mary Dadd
  22. Cllr Alan Lion
  23. Cllr Tom Bromwich
  24. Cllr Mary Dadd
  25. Cllr Tom Bromwich
  26. Cllr Mary Dadd
  27. Cllr Alan Lion
  28. Cllr Alan Lion

Chancellor Louise Mead.
Good evening, Members.
Please be seated.
Cllr Louise Mead - 0:00:22
Before we start this evening's proceedings, anyone who has a jacket may remove it if they
wish. There are no rules as to where your jacket this evening as we don't have air
conditioning at the moment.
And ties. Okay. Please feel free.

1 Webcasting Introduction

So, agenda item 1 is the webcasting introduction. So may I ask Gary Woodall to read the webcasting
introduction please.
Gary Woodhall - 0:01:02
Thank you. The Chairman would like to remind everyone present that this meeting will be
filmed live or recorded and uploaded to the internet and will be capable of repeated viewing.
Therefore, by participating in this meeting, you are consenting to being filmed and to
the possible use of those images and sound recordings.
If any public speakers do not wish to have their image captured on Microsoft Teams, they
should ensure that their video setting throughout the meeting is turned off and set to audio
only.
Members are reminded to turn on their microphones before speaking and turn them off when they
have finished.
Thank you, Chairman.

2 District Council Elections - 7 May 2026

Cllr Louise Mead - 0:01:42
Thank you very much Mr. Woodall. Agenda item two is the District Council elections which took place on the 7th of May 2026.
So members before we commence our meeting this evening I'd like to welcome our newly elected councillors and of course those who were re -elected.
And so as one of my last tasks as the Chairman of the Council I would like to invite each of you individually to join me in the well of the Chamber for a photograph when I call your name.
So I'm just going to go down to the word of the chamber and then we can start that process.
So when I call your name, if you could come down here and we can have a photograph.
Thank you.
So we have Councillor James Small, Buckhurst Hill East and Whitebridge.
Thank you very much.
APPLAUSE
Thank you.
Thank you.
We have Councillor Smooty Patel, Buckers Hill West.
Applause
We have Tang Shidai Shanfang Chiguo with Lambo.
Applause
And now we have Councillor Karen Batley, Epping East.
And now we have Councillor Holly Whitbread, Epping West and rural.
And now we have Councillor Natalie Wilding Barrett, Loughton Fairbanks.
Councillor Richard Cohen, Loudoun Forest.
Thank you very much.
Councillor Chidinweke, Loudon Raising.
Councillor Graham Whiskin, Loudon St John.
Councillor Jaye Gupta, Northwell Facet
utilise boxes as hypocrisy.
Councillor Phil Dawkins, Royden and Loewenazing.
Councillor Karen McIvor, Rural East
Councillor Jeff Shaw, Faden Boyce and Tom H
Councillor Paul Kelleher, Waltham Abbey North.
Councillor James Abbott, author Mabry South and rural.
Thank you.
And Councillor Josh Webb, Ward there may be West.
And that is everybody.
I hope I haven't forgotten anybody.
Thank you.
So thank you members.
It's a pleasure to meet you all and I welcome you to Epping Forest District Council.
Cllr Louise Mead - 0:08:42
We now go on to our next agenda item which is election of chairman.
Before I do that I am just going to address you with how you have been as chairman.

3 Election of Chairman

As you came in today I hope you enjoyed the video which was on the screen with the photos
and music.
So my daughter put that together. So it captures just a fraction of what this year has meant
to me and the people and the places, the laughter, the moments that will stay with me forever.
So serving as Chairman of Eppie Forest District Council has been a great honour and what a
wonderful community we have in the district. What extraordinary people I've met along
the way and it's our residents, our volunteers, staff, partners and friends who make this
district so special and I've seen the proof day in day out. And when I look back I can
hardly believe how much has been packed into one year. I've cut a few ribbons, I've planted
some trees, opened a charity shop, I've cut the ribbon of Epping Leisure Centre where
I keep talking about this but it's amazing, but to my eternal disbelief my name now sits
on a plaque next to an Olympic gold medallist, James Guy, MBE. I still don't understand how
that happened because I can't really even swim a length, but it did. So I'm very proud
of that moment. And I'd like to thank Amelia, who organised those events for the opening
of the Epping Leisure Centre and had quite a lot to do with having the building built
as well. I've opened new local authority housing in Waltham Abbey. I've represented Epping
Forest at the High Sheriff's Garden Party and the King's Voluntary Awards.
And I've been honoured to welcome the High Sheriff, Julie Fosh, the previous High Sheriff,
Julie Fosh DL, to our own Civic Awards, as well as to Daisy's My Daughter's Talent
Show where we were also joined by our MP, Dr Neil Hudson, along with the Epping Mayor,
Councillor Janet Whitehouse, cheering on performers.
I spent time with so many wonderful volunteers who give so much of themselves to others and
and their kindness and commitment are really the heartbeat of this district.
I visited school projects, the college in Loughton, I've helped children build bug hotels
and I've even made a bee hotel with Daisy, which despite our combined dodgy DIY skills,
apparently it's still standing.
We've attended all the Stay Safe and Well events, two memory trains, supported entrepreneurs,
created our own exhibition about our old school Braeside which closed last year at the Epping
Forest District Museum. I've been a guest at Diwali, I've had my own carol service.
I've switched on the first Diwali lights in Buckhurst Hill, which I'm proud to say.
I lit the menorah lighting in Epping. I attended the synagogue to hear the storey of Susie Barnett
for Holocaust Memorial Day, of which we're now friends. And of all of these events, people
all of all faiths together harmoniously and supportively have been together and
it's been lovely to see. I've been to most of the play in the park events, I've
handed out the first anniversary of District Lottery Awards, I supported the
health and social care conference here at the civic offices and I organised an
afternoon tea for our very special community champions. I've attended the
Buddy Up Christmas party, the West Exodus Inclusion Project party, I've gone out
the refuse lorry. I've helped clear rubbish. I volunteered with Country Care and I celebrated
their 40th anniversary in April. And of course I supported our wonderful Youth Council conference.
And I was able to read out the new Youth Council make -up, including my own daughter's names
and Councillor Patel's daughter's name as well, which was nice. And of that I'd like
to thank Diane who runs the Youth Council for her support. And today, I was still doing
my final event today, a 100th birthday to Marjorie Fitch who lived in Loughton. She
turned 100 today and she was amazing, absolutely amazing. She walked out to a special bench
and we had lots of photos. Can we give her a big round of applause?
And of course nearly three weeks ago I had the privilege of taking three members of staff
to Buckingham Palace Garden Party. So that was a really nice afternoon full of lots of
memories. So what a year truly. I'm also thrilled to say that we've raised nearly £4000 for
my chosen charities, the Epping Forest Food Bank and St Margaret's Hospital League of
Friends. So thank you to everyone that donated. I want to also express my deepest thanks to
Councillor Chris Pond, who's unable to be here tonight, and Councillor Murray for proposing
me as chairman in the first place and for having confidence in me, which has meant a
lot. I also very much hope that our previous chair, Caroline Pond, who I promised I would
make proud a year ago when she passed away, to say well done. So I hope I've done her
proud.
So I want to thank all of the councillors who have debated with respect during my year
and have accepted that I come as a package with Daisy May. I particularly want to thank
the leader for always accepting difference and accepting my daughter years ago because
if he hadn't and I hadn't been allowed to bring her anywhere I'd never had this opportunity.
I'd like to thank all our wonderful officers for their professionalism and their patience,
the executive team, Andrew, Jen, Barbara, Owen, Democratic Services, especially Gary
for his patience, all our communications team, especially Natalie who's uploaded all my photos
and my bright ups and the community well -being team and so many other people
that work here all the employees that work here they're amazing and
particularly Schuleko who is works on the concierge team here and all of the
concierge team and the cleaners I have to say I love speaking to them they are
amazing and they keep the building going so can we give them a round of applause as well.
So thank you everybody. I couldn't have done this year without you. Being a chairman is
definitely a team effort. So on a more personal note, I'd like to thank my daughter's father
Michael who is here this evening because he's had to come all the way from Norfolk to look
after Daisy on occasions. And to town councillor Wicksley for his unwavering support. He was
also mayor at the same time so we've had a lovely year we've often visited events at
the same time so thank you to him. I'd also like to thank the previous chairman to me
Les Burrows I was his vice chairman and I've got lots of fond memories of working with
him and with his wife Carol and I wish him a very happy retirement. So almost finally
I want to say a very big thank you to Vice -Chairman, Councillor Alan Lyon.
I couldn't have chosen a better Vice -Chairman, totally with me every step of the way.
A support for Daisy May as well, always there, always ready to listen, always ready with
the Chair at every meeting and he's totally accepted Daisy as well.
In fact, him and Daisy have been a bit of a dream team because she's followed him around
selling raffle tickets and getting things ready for meetings and events.
And Council Line has been utterly devoted to the position.
So to him and his wife, Suzanne, thank you both for your support,
your kindness, humour, humility, and I hope we will remain friends.
So finally, there are two other special people that I haven't mentioned yet,
and they actually got to know each other very well.
In fact, on one particular evening they spent nearly four hours together during an extraordinary
full council meeting and that is Pat, the Chairman's Officer and my daughter Daisy
Bay. So as every Chairman says, Pat is a necessity to get through the year and she has kept me
steady and listened and understood and made sure I was okay. I doubt her job description
said childcare, but I'm not sure she's even looked after any of the previous 30 -odd
previous chairman's children because I'm apparently the youngest chairman. I imagine
not, I don't know, but she did of course look after my daughter. And the only other
person actually in the world who Daisy May will stay with other than me or her dad. So
that just shows you the qualities of Pat, doesn't it? So I'd like to say thank you
Let's give her a round of applause.
APPLAUSE
We're nearly there, it's OK.
So, as for Daisy May, I don't know where she's sitting.
Oh, no, she's there.
As for Daisy May, I couldn't have done it without you, Daisy May.
And I remember when it was mentioned in a meeting
that I could possibly be vice chairman,
and I was like, no, no, no.
And I was telling her, shh, don't say anything.
and she had a little tap, she does this little tap on my shoulder
and her little whisper which she does in public
and she said, yes, yes, yes, you can do it, Mummy
and I said, no I can't, she said, I'll help you, I will help you
and I would imagine she's probably the youngest consul
as well as me being the youngest chairman, I don't know
makes me feel younger anyway
and we are a bit different, I must admit, we are a bit different
But I think people have liked that and we understand the trials and tribulations of
life and we are both neurodiverse.
So it really is pressure for someone so young to come to all those events and Daisy has
selective mutism and autism.
But she kept to her words and she's been the best consult anyone could ask for.
She's absolutely perfect.
She's exceeded all expectations.
She's been to every event really apart from four events.
And I've seen faces light up when she walks into an event.
And they want to see her more than me.
They go straight up to her.
But she has become quite a celebrity
because people say, oh, we've seen you.
And they go straight to her.
But that's nice.
She deserves that.
And she steps up every single time and never disappointed.
So thank you, Daisy May.
So what I'm going to do is ask you to come down
into the world, Daisy May, please.
And can we give her a big clap?
because you don't have to do that.
APPLAUSE
So Daisy May has her own previous consult badge which says previous consult to chair
from the Epping Forest District. It's not from Epping Forest, I got it made but hopefully
it will mean something.
She has her own awards as well. She's got one more thing, I'll finish in a minute.
And this is from Mummy. It says,
Daisy May, for being the best Chairman Consult.
I love you Mummy.
Do you want to?
Thank you.
And I'd like to ask Pat to come down to the well as well please.
Where's Pat?
So thank you Pat, thank you for everything and I hope you had a little something for
you.
Thank you.
Thank you very much.
So finally, thank you for making this the most remarkable year of my life.
Cllr Louise Mead - 0:21:38
And to the new members here tonight, the new council, please debate with respect and ensure
the new chairmen allow the same respect that I've been lucky enough to have.
And remember, our residents always come first.
Thank you.
Thank you very much for that.
Cllr Louise Mead - 0:22:18
Thank you.
Thank you.
Councillor Whitbrough.
Thank you, Chairman, for the last time, but thank you, Louise, most of all, and thank
you, Daisy May.
Cllr Chris Whitbread - 0:22:29
When I watched those photos earlier on this evening up on the side, you realised what
a joyous year you've had.
Against all the tribulations that we've faced day to day, what you brought to this office
of Chairman and to the district as a whole was that decency that is joy and
everywhere I went where we were together and Daisy May was there whether it was
doing bug huts or anything else we were doing there was a joy to it and I
haven't seen that for such a long time it was a privilege to work alongside you
over the past year it's been an exemplar of how to be a great chairman I know the
next chairman will do the same in their own way, but it was just such a joyous time and
it brought forward what's best about our district.
So can I just say a simple thank you, thank you to yourself, Louise, and thank you to
Daisy May.
I will never forget the talent show, two talent shows, they were absolutely superb and just
what this district needs is the uplift of the better things that we do.
Thank you very much.
Thank you.
APPLAUSE
Cllr Louise Mead - 0:23:43
Councillor Whitehouse.
Cllr Jon Whitehouse - 0:23:53
Thank you, yes I also wanted to congratulate you on the year you've just taken part in.
I mean a year ago I think when you first spoke you spoke to the challenges that you'd faced and I thought with some trepidation in the sense about the year ahead.
But you've risen to the challenge magnificently.
You sort of turned up to all these different events with a smile and with scissors where needed
and cut the ribbons and opened the events and made people feel important when you thanked them for the work that they did.
And thank you Daisy May for the support that she's given you over the year as well.
Enjoy your year ahead in a less demanding role. Thank you.
Cllr Louise Mead - 0:24:35
Cllr Barbara Cohen - 0:24:46
Thank you. On behalf of the LRA, I would like to thank Louise for being our chairman of
Epping Forest District Council this year. Her chairmanship was not without its difficulties,
with demonstrators shouting outside at our council meeting about the Bell Hotel. However,
she kept a cool head and kept us all under control in a very firm manner. Her
attendance at so many events was welcomed along with her daughter Daisy
May who always has such a lovely smile. Louise thank you for being our chairman
for the last 12 months. Thank you.
Cllr Louise Mead - 0:25:24
Thank you Madam Chairman.
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 0:25:33
On behalf of the Reform UK Group may I thank you for your services to Epping Forest and
for the outstanding consort that you have introduced to our community.
I sincerely hope that you wear that medal temporarily and perhaps one day you will find
yourself with the chains of Epping Forest as a chairman yourself one day.
I sincerely believe you will have inspired many young people, including those that perhaps
do life differently and being different in life is a superpower and in no way anything
other than that.
May I also request Councillor Meade that as of today the Member for Rural East became
the Chairman of Essex County Council, I sincerely hope with all due girl power you'll provide
each other with some well -earned advice.
and I also seek your advice on how to be a good consort.
So thank you very much for your services to Epping Forest.
APPLAUSE
Cllr Louise Mead - 0:26:27
Thank you.
I'll just move it to you.
Oh, Councillor Whitford. Holly Whitford.
Thank you, Chairman.
Cllr Holly Whitbread - 0:26:38
And I just want to speak very briefly to say what a wonderful female role model you've been in the chair.
It's really brilliant to see such a strong female,
and you've acted throughout with dignity and decency and I am very grateful for
for how you've chaired very difficult meetings and it's been good to get to
know you both over the civic year and also meet another Barry Manilow fan
which is very rare.
Thank you.
Thanks.
Cllr Louise Mead - 0:27:03
Applause.
Captain Patel.
Cllr Smruti Patel - 0:27:14
I really couldn't let the, I normally don't speak up when everybody else has done it and I feel like I shouldn't repeat everything that everyone else has said,
but I couldn't let this evening go without saying my heartiest congratulations for the whole year, the way you've conducted yourself in the chambers.
and it's been amazing to have you at all of the events,
whether it's Buckhurst Hill or any of the others.
Daisy May obviously is close to my heart
because my daughter and her are both
at the Youth Council this year,
so I'm sure I'll be seeing a lot more of her as well.
But you really have brought humility, grace,
and you know, beauties of the chambers,
as well as, you know, fun and laughter,
and you know, it's not all about getting everything right
and getting everything done prim and proper,
and you know, stiff upper lip kind of thing.
And you really brought that to home to say, you know what,
we can be all different and we can have fun and have fun and
laughter and it doesn't all have to be all scary for all the
newcomers at least anyway.
So, yeah, brilliant.
Thank you.
Thank you very much.
Cllr Louise Mead - 0:28:10
Thank you, Chairman.
On behalf of the staff, I would just also like to thank you
Andrew Small - 0:28:20
really for being an excellent Chairman this year, really.
You've been a pleasure to work with, a real joy through what
has probably been an exciting year at times, I would say.
And it's also been a pleasure to work with Daisy May as well,
really ever present, and great fun to be with as well.
So thank you very much, Chairman.
Thank you very much.
Cllr Louise Mead - 0:28:43
Thank you.
Thank you, Chairman.
Cllr Alan Lion - 0:28:53
It is an ideal opportunity just to express my thanks to Councillor Meade, to Louise.
It has been an absolutely fantastic year.
She is always smiling, always dedicated, totally professional and has done an absolutely fantastic
job. What you see here is only a fraction of what she has done and the work she's carried
out. It's been a great inspiration to me and to the rest of the council. I think she has
really been a huge role model and I congratulate her on her year and the work that she's done.
Thank you.
Thank you very much.
Cllr Louise Mead - 0:29:35
Thank you Councillors.
Thank you for all those lovely kind words and thank you Andrew for those kind words
as well.
So we now are at the point where we need to elect a new chairman of the council.
So I'm going to now ask are there nominations for the new chairman of the council for the
civic year 2026 to 2027.
Cllr Jeane Lea - 0:30:04
Before I make my nomination, I would just like to say what an amazing chairperson you
have been. You are amazing at Daisy. I remember the very first time when you came to the civic
dinner with little Maisie, and I cannot believe the difference in how she has grown and how
lovely. So you've just been amazing, the pair of you. But my nomination, I would like to
nominate Councillor Alan Lyon as chairman for the following year. Thank you.
Cllr Louise Mead - 0:30:36
Okay. Do you have a seconder, Councillor Lee? Seconder? Yes, Councillor McCann.
Cllr Craig McCann - 0:30:40
Thank you, Madam Chairman. Just to echo sentiments, a fantastic year and you will be a very tough
fact or follow.
But it gives me great pleasure to second the nomination
of Councillor Lyon for the chairman for the next year.
When I was asked whether or not I'd consider
seconding this motion, I consulted the constitution.
And two words in particular struck me.
One, convention, it's the convention of this council
to elect the vice chairman to the office of chairman
for the year after they've been in office.
But a more fundamental level, there's another word that struck me and that's merit.
That person, whoever they are, should be elected on merit.
And as we've heard, Councillor Lyon has done a tremendous job for us as Vice -Chairman this
year.
He's been a stalwart support to yourself as the Chairman and he has been a great ambassador
for the people of this district.
So I wholeheartedly second that proposal.
Thank you very much, Councillor McCann.
Cllr Louise Mead - 0:31:40
Do we have any other nominations for Chairman?
No. Okay. So I, um, Judy, is that agreed? Councillor Lyon is Chairman for the municipal
Praise the Lord.
Thank you.
So I, Alan Lyon, having been elected to the office of Chairman of Epping Forest District
Council, declare that I take the office upon myself and will duly and faithfully fulfil
the duties of it according to the best of my judgement and ability.
Signed, Alan Lyle.
I now would like to present the past Chairman's badge to Councillor Louise Mead on her successful
year in office.
Thank you very much.
Can I now invite my wife Suzanne and Daisy May down for some photographs?
Matthew 19.
Thank you.
to Chavuah.
Thank you.
until we actually start.
Thank you.
Cllr Alan Lion - 0:36:21
Thank you.
So item four on our agenda is to appoint a vice chairman.

4 Appointment of Vice-Chairman

So, Members, I ask for your nominations for the new Vice -Chairman of Council for the Civic
Year 2026 -2027.
Councillor Whitehouse.
Thank you Chairman and many congratulations on your election.
Cllr Jon Whitehouse - 0:37:02
The person I'm going to nominate was first elected to represent the residents of then
Epping Henel ward 30 years ago in 1996, just over I suppose 30 years ago now.
And she's served the residents of that ward ever since.
And over that time she's taken part in most areas of the council's work, apart for some
reason licencing which she's given the swerve to, but every other pretty much area of the
Council's work, including for a time chairing the scrutiny panel.
And as those who sat on committees with Council Whitehouse will know,
she's not been content generally just to sit in a committee.
She's contributed, she's asked questions, she's raised issues based on her experience
of ward work, her work with the voluntary sector, and actually reading the committee
papers in advance.
And it's not just been a record of work inside the council chamber, she's a record of work
in the community, whether it's from setting up a local speed watch group to most recently
over the past year organising training sessions for dementia friends to raise the profile
of dementia in the community.
I believe, as well as it being time again for a Liberal Democrat member to sit on the
top table and in recognition of the service, that Councillor Whitehouse was well equipped
for the role of Vice Chair. Like our current Chairman, she's had an apprenticeship on the
Constitutional Working Group, so well equipped should any procedural matters come up for
discussion should things be more awry.
Her original career was as a teacher,
so some experience in crowd control and keeping
people in order.
As you'd expect, she's gone through proper constitutional
procedures of collecting signatures and submitting
them to the appointments panel by the time expected.
I won't say any more.
I hope members will feel able to support Janet
Whitehouse as Vice Chairman this evening.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Cllr Alan Lion - 0:39:28
Councillor Whitehouse, do you have a seconder?
Councillor Murray.
Thank you, Chairman.
I had my hand up for a while and I thought I'd get to you.
Cllr Stephen Murray - 0:39:41
Yes, I did.
And John, there's absolutely nothing wrong in saying mum as well.
Absolutely nothing wrong, because you will be the second person who would have said that
tonight.
And absolutely no problem with that.
It's personally delightful for me to second Janet.
I've seen Janet for the whole of her 30 years.
And I'm not going to be controversial tonight,
but I do think she was wronged however many years ago
when she was put up for vice chairman
and it was deemed not acceptable
because she didn't belong to a particular group.
So I do see it as a justice corrected
or an injustice corrected.
I can't think of a Councillor sitting here that deserves it any more than Janet does.
I accept things are a little bit unclear at the moment about what might happen, but it
is a possibility that Janet could be our ever last Chairman of EFDC.
I'm not necessarily saying that's something I want to see, but it is a strong possibility
that she could be our last ever Chairman as well.
So I'm really delighted to second Janet tonight.
Thank you, Councillor Murray.
APPLAUSE
Cllr Alan Lion - 0:40:55
Councillor Murray, do you wish to say any...
Oh, you've already said it, so that's OK, though.
Was there anything further you wanted to say at the end?
No. OK.
Er...
Councillor Bromwich?
Just asking, is this an appropriate time to also lend endorsements
Cllr Tom Bromwich - 0:41:14
to those... the proposer and seconder, or is that another time?
I think we wait for a second nomination at the moment and see if there are any further
nominations.
Cllr Alan Lion - 0:41:24
Are there any other nominations?
Councillor Mead.
Cllr Louise Mead - 0:41:30
Can I first congratulate you, Chairman, on your new role and hope you have a really fantastic
year.
It is my pleasure to place a nomination before the Chamber for Chris Pond OBE for the role
vice -chairman. So many of you will have worked alongside Chris for years and some for decades
and you will know exactly why this nomination feels very appropriate and deeply deserved.
Chris has served the district with unwavering dedication for many years.
Before he was a district councillor he had already been given a generation of service to the county
Council since 2005 and also Longar as a town councillor in Loughton since 1996, a
lifetime of commitment to public service and to the community and the people of
Loughton and Epping Forest. But length of service alone isn't what makes Chris
exceptional, it's also the quality of that service. He brings an extraordinary
depth of knowledge about the history of our district, a calm steady
professionalism and an ability to articulate complex issues with clarity, respect and quiet
authority. He is one of those councillors whose contributions elevate the entire debate.
When Chris speaks, people listen, not because he demands attention but because he earns
it through insight, fairness and integrity. And of course we can't speak about Chris without
his dear wife Caroline's contributions to the district. Together they have shaped
Loughton in ways that will be felt for generations. Their influence runs through
so many aspects of our town in Loughton. Its heritage, its community
spirit and also in the district. Without Chris and Caroline I don't think I would
be sitting here as a councillor and probably none of the Loughton Residents
trusted by everyone. That's not something that can be manufactured, it's earned
through years and years of consistent principled service. He has an
encyclopaedic knowledge of the area, the history, its quirks, its challenges and
he has an eloquence and a courtesy and something that's well admired in him. He
has a devotion to the district, he gets results, he was instrumental in saving
and Jessel Green, and his expertise in liaising around conservation, his knowledge in planning,
is second to none. And in addition, his humility and his patience and kindness. We stand at
a moment of transition. He may be the last chairman, and we know that his long honourable
service, his deep expertise and his unwavering commitment to our community now would be the
right time for Councillor Chris Pond. I hope you join me in supporting him wholeheartedly.
Thank you.
Councillor Lee, do you have a seconder for your nomination?
Cllr Alan Lion - 0:44:32
Councillor Voldien.
Cllr Roger Baldwin - 0:44:37
I'd like to add my voice to others that would express congratulations on your being elected
as Chairman today.
I think it's absolutely fantastic and wish you a great year ahead.
Likewise, I very much support Chris Pond for Vice Chairman.
I've known Councillor Pond ever since I got here.
involved with the LRA, which is over 10 years ago.
He's been a wonderful leader of our group
and an inspiration to others in the LRA and beyond.
Councillor Ponte has served as a district
and county councillor, I forgot to mention a town councillor,
over 20 years and has worked incredibly hard
for the benefit of the town of Lauter
and also for the district as a whole.
His achievements are many and varied
and I certainly won't be able to enumerate them here.
They also extend outside politics, as has been mentioned, to his academic achievements,
his incredible knowledge of local history, and listed buildings and architecture.
He's also the president of Loughton Historical Society.
I once made a mistake of calling it Loughton Historical Society, but he actually forgave
me for that.
So, and it's an amazing archive of the history of the town.
Councillor Pawn will make a great ambassador
for our district and it's fitting that he should follow
in the footsteps of his late wife and former chairman
of this council, Councillor Caroline Pawn.
Okay, thank you very much.
Cllr Alan Lion - 0:46:17
I'll make sure I've got my microphone working.
No, it's not, is it?
Or is it?
Yes, it is.
Sorry.
Okay, thank you very much, Councillor Baldwin.
Are there anybody else that wishes to speak?
Councillor Bromwich.
Cllr Tom Bromwich - 0:46:34
Thank you very much, Chair, and congratulations as well.
I am very happy that you have,
you are, have you seen the change?
I'm happy too.
Congratulations as well, Suzanne.
I also, I really did appreciate when you,
You must have had so many invitations, but you decided to come to North Wheel Bassett for the Remembrance Day.
We had some lovely pie and mash, which was always good, but I did really appreciate that, given the demands on your diary.
It is the centre of the universe, of course.
Yeah, thank you.
So I think the key thing that everyone in the Chamber can agree with is that whoever comes out on top of this,
whether it is Councillor Whitehouse or if it is Councillor Pond,
we all win, the district wins, because these are two incredible public servants
that have dedicated their lives to this chamber, to other chambers and to the community.
And I think it's so fitting that we are stuck between two such fantastic options for Vice Chair.
I think that my own personal position is that Councillor Whitehouse is a supremely qualified
person for this job. I've known her for a little less than you John, but I've known her for the
two years I've been here. She has been a support, she has been always willing to help, and you can
just see the respect that she commands across the chamber.
So they've already mentioned it,
and Councillor Murray mentioned it,
Councillor Whitehouse mentioned it,
Councillor for 30 years for both the town,
county and district.
You've not had to switch seats to win reelection.
You've been reelected eight times in Eppingham,
North and then Epping East,
which is just goes to show how much respect people have
in you over the years.
And I also understand you stood in Northwield in 1987
for the Liberal Democrats, I think.
Well, it might have been the Liberals at that time.
But you've had a campaigning history in this district
for 40 years in total, which is remarkable.
And now whilst the vote for vice chair is nonpolitical,
I can't help but feel that this has been a political process
and a very predictable vote that we are about to have.
I can imagine the way that certain people are going to go.
But I think that you have demonstrated such independence
in your role on this council, in various chairmanships,
on committees, and I think that's what we need
at the moment.
So I think you are the most fitting person.
You have been community minded, you are respected,
experienced, your experience as the longest serving woman
in this chamber is second to none,
and how wonderful it is that she has been nominated
by every single group in this,
a member of every single group in this chamber
just goes to show that someone in every group has something good to say about you.
And I would like to, I might get you in trouble Craig, but I want to reference you when you talked about convention and merit.
Because when it comes to this point next year, we need to remember the words of Councillor McCann,
that it should be convention and merit, and that's why I am absolutely throwing my complete and entire endorsement
behind Councillor Whitehouse to be Vice -Chair and also Chair next year.
Thank you very much.
Cllr Alan Lion - 0:49:58
Councillor Lomagayeva.
Thank you, Mr Chairman.
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 0:50:07
I couldn't think, and I'm not going to repeat everything that Councillor Bromwich
has just said, because I do not want should Councillor Whitehouse become Vice -Chairman.
Her ego to be so inflated she doesn't fit in the chair, because I could say a lot more
kind of things because I first met Councillor Whitehouse as a youth Councillor and after
I finished becoming a youth Councillor and I was in that in -between period of thinking
of becoming a district Councillor, something that colleagues in the room will know how
that feels, I announced to Councillor Whitehouse that I was going to be a Conservative and
her instant response was, but what about Liberal Democrats?
To which case I said, not for me, thank you, and she left it.
She left it.
Because Councillor Whitehouse isn't obsessed with political point scoring.
Councillor Whitehouse is obsessed with the people of Epping.
And I know that obsession extends to the people of Epping Forest
and indeed the people of Essex in her time as a County Councillor.
And colleagues at the County Council, not just from the Liberal Democrat group,
but across parties, miss Councillor Janet Whitehouse for her eye for detail.
But I can assure you that I felt just as embarrassed that you were not elected as Vice Chairman
when that opportunity once arose to itself.
And I think, and I do think I'd ever quote Councillor Murray in my time in this place,
but I think it's worth being repeated that it would right what I think was a fundamental
wrong at the time because in order not just to follow convention but just to do what is
the right thing and the right thing, right in principle not in politics, the right thing
to do is to see those vice -chairmen chains around you because you will represent us with
fantastic, immaculate way in which you conduct yourself on behalf of your residents. But
I would like to say this is in no way to discredit the other candidate because I agree with all
the words of Councillor Meade when she talks about the service of Councillor
Pond. It's unfortunate he's not here this evening and Councillor Pond would also
make a fantastic vice -chairman. But it feels to me and this isn't to discredit
the nomination which has come from the same group as Councillor Pond but it
would feel to me that it wasn't necessarily a nomination planned but
rather a nomination planned to stop. Now the public hate that. They absolutely
despise it and this chamber is to be used to fulfil the duties of this
council and nothing else and I know that as vice chairman Councillor Janet
Whitehouse will do a sterling job as would Councillor Pond but I will be
supporting and I wish my group to support whatever candidate they want to
We're not pathetic like that.
We don't do things before the meeting.
We just do what we want to do as a group,
because we're not silly like that.
We leave it to other parties to do that.
So I will be personally supporting you.
I would encourage my group to, but my group will do whatever
my group wishes to do.
And one thing I will say, finally,
is there was quite a clear message
from the people of Epping Forest on May the 7th.
I'm not suggesting that Councillor Whitehouse is soon to be the 13th member of my group,
but what I am saying here, they want things done properly and if you want the job done,
you ask a busy lady, I say the word lady on purpose, and Councillor Janet Whitehouse will
do a proper job of this office, so I will be fully supporting her.
Cllr Alan Lion - 0:53:52
Cllr Stephen Murray - 0:53:59
Councillor Murray. Yes, thank you, Chair. This is my 45th Annual
General Meeting and I say that not because I want to remind people I've been here too
long, but this is one of the most difficult situations I have come across at an Annual
meeting. Can I first of all ask, has the nomination form been circulated? On page 130, we have
the nomination form for Janet Whitehouse and I will be making this speech or this contribution
regardless of whether I had signed Janet's form or supporting Janet. Can I first of all
ask before I continue what I want to say, have all members seen the nomination form?
because I think that is important to see because I can't remember receiving it.
Gary can I ask you to comment please?
Cllr Alan Lion - 0:54:48
Gary Woodhall - 0:54:51
I have here in my hand not peace in our time but two fully signed up Vice Chairman of Council
nomination forms. That doesn't quite answer the question Chairman. The nomination form for
Cllr Stephen Murray - 0:55:00
Councillor Whitehouse was circulated it's on page 130 I've got it in front of me. I can read who
signed it have we seen the other nominations? It hasn't been circulated to
Gary Woodhall - 0:55:15
all councillors it was only given to me probably about an hour and a half ago.
Thank You chairman I'll carry on with my remarks that obviously doesn't rule it
out of order I'm not making that point but I do think it would have been
Cllr Stephen Murray - 0:55:27
reasonable for that to have been circulated to members and therefore it
does suggest to me that it's almost a last minute activity.
Before I lose the point,
and it's probably a really important point,
I won't be seconded by anyone in my support
for Councillor Poynt as a person.
I've probably known him longer than anyone in this chamber,
because I knew him long before he was a Councillor,
through his role in Loughton
and his role in the Methodist Church.
So, I will not be second place by anyone in my support and my understanding of what he
can offer.
But I just have to bring two things to your attention.
Six members of his own group have supported the nomination of Janet Whitehouse.
So, and I'm not expecting them necessarily to respond publicly, but that does suggest
that the LRA as a group aren't supportive of this second nomination because we can read
the names.
I'm not going to read them out but there are, I will just count how many there are again.
Six members of the LRA group which up to half past six was half of them and now it's more
than half of them, six of 11 have signed the other nomination.
So it is really strange.
The other thing that is really strange is I've spoken to Councillor Pawn twice this
week on completely separate issues, completely separate issues, but we did discuss EFDC business
as well, but it wasn't the purpose of the call.
I don't want to put words into people's mouths, but my interpretation of what he said was
he was prepared to do it if he was nominated, but he's not particularly keen to do it.
And he's told me that twice this week.
So I just find this really odd.
And I do think it's reasonable for me to ask this, because we haven't seen the 15 signatures,
would I be right in guessing or would I be naive that obviously it's signed by two members
of the LRA that have moved and seconded.
Do all the other 13 signatures come from one group?
I think that otherwise I want to see the signatures before we move to a vote.
I don't think it's actually unreasonable that they're read out to be honest.
Cllr Alan Lion - 0:58:03
Gary Woodhall - 0:58:06
Okay so the names of the 13 councillors that have nominated
councillor Chris Pond for vice chairman of the council is as follows
councillor Kaz Risby, Stephen Heather, Ken Williamson, Holly Whitbread, Jamie Bracha,
Joseph Parsons, Jody Lucas, Ray Balcombe, Jean Leith, Darshan Sangha, Mary Dad, Alan
Lyon, Louise Mead, Nigel Bedford, Roger Baldwin and Richard Morgan. I think that
might be 16 there. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, yeah there's 16 there.
Cllr Alan Lion - 0:58:39
Councillor Meade. I wasn't going to talk again but being as there's some
Cllr Louise Mead - 0:58:45
information that seems a little bit mixed up. The group LRA met on the 11th
of May and Councillor Pond was there and it was unanimously agreed at that
meeting that we would put, or he wanted to be put, and we would put forward
Councillor Pond as Vice -Chairman of the Council. In that time there's members of
LRA unfortunately have been confused about where they want to be and that's
caused a problem in actually managing to liaise with some of them about filling
in this form and they kept changing their minds.
So I'm just telling you the truth and that's what's happened.
But Councillor Pond does want to be put forward
as Vice -Chairman, thank you.
Councillor Wiprin.
Cllr Alan Lion - 0:59:28
Thank you Chairman and Chairman I think we should get back
Cllr Chris Whitbread - 0:59:33
to the job at hand which is to appoint a Deputy Chairman.
And as a Council aren't we lucky that we've got two
very able candidates for Deputy Chairman.
And that goes without saying, and I agree with what Councillor Bromwich said, it goes without saying.
Whoever is Deputy Chairman this year goes forward on the basis of what was described from the Constitution this year,
because that's right and proper to do.
And I was asked to nominate Councillor Pond, I was happy to do so, I am happy to do so.
I know both candidates would be both would be great, Deputy Chairman, I've got no problems
with either candidate.
My view with Councillor Pond is he has got a very, very distinguished career within local
government and what he's done for Loughton over many, many years.
He's a person that I have a great deal of respect for.
I've worked with him both here and at the County Council.
He was my scrutiny at the County Council and he was very effective at that.
He's a great chairman and was a great chairman at the County Council on Corporate Scrutiny.
He has been a great councillor here doing many good works for Loughton and Epping Forest
District as a whole.
He speaks with strength on matters because he understands the facts of what is going
on and I would certainly am delighted to support the council upon personally and that's why
I put my faith in him being our next deputy chairman,
but I have no objection to Eva.
Thank you.
Cllr Alan Lion - 1:01:15
Can I just add some points here?
Because I did speak to Councillor Ponds
some three or four weeks ago
and asked him if he would be vice chairman.
He said, yes, he would.
And that was the sort of start of the conversation.
So, you know, it was a conversation
and he was happy to do so.
And I don't know what's happened since,
but he was not anything against Councillor Whitehouse.
She's, I've worked with her very closely on constitution.
She'd be a great vice chairman,
but I have to say that I did speak to Councillor Pong
and he was willing to stand.
And just to say that of course,
Councillor Meade did ask me to stand as a vice chairman,
which I was greatly honoured to do.
And I felt this was an important step to reflect that.
So I've got two other speakers,
I've Councillor Nowicki and Councillor McIver.
Thank you.
Thank you very much, Chair.
Cllr Chidi Nweke - 1:02:21
And a confirmation for your nomination as a Chair this year,
I believe you do a fantastic job.
I'm feeling a bit squashed here, one minute.
That's better.
The role of the chair and the vice chair of the council is meant to be, it's a very important
civic role and it's meant to be non -political.
LRA is non -political.
We are independent councillors representing our residents and we're listening to what
our residents say and want and that's what we represent.
The vote today is nothing to do with personality or who individuals are.
I agree with what my colleague said.
Council Pawn is a fantastic Councillor.
He's done an amazing work for LRA.
And for Loughton.
He's someone I look up to and I speak to him.
I think we had a meeting with him this morning.
You say he spoke to him three weeks ago.
Well, I spoke to him this morning.
I spent two hours in his house.
We had a cup of tea, myself and Graham in his house.
We had a long discussion on the situation.
We understand where he stands with it.
And as LRA, we have our stand on the situation.
I'm not here to discuss LRA internal issues, which is an
LRA issue to discuss.
But what I'm here to say is I put myself forward to vote for
Janet Whitehouse for a reason.
And it's not a party political issue.
It's something that we have recognised who is wanted to be
the vice this year.
I've not been here for long.
I think I have been here for five, six years, but I have had, she has been overlooked for
a long time, which for me I think is unfair. She has been one of the longest serving councillors
in the chambers. I do not see why that would be the case, because it is a non -political
position, and that should be recognised. Thank you.
Thank you.
Cllr Alan Lion - 1:04:19
Councillor MacIver, your point.
Thank you Mr Chairman, just two points if I may.
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 1:04:26
The first point, in fact I do have three very short points.
Firstly, it was confirmed to me by a number of members of the LRA that Councillor Ponds'
position is not that he particularly wants the role, that he would honourably take the
role if nobody else wanted it.
There's clearly another candidate that does want it and therefore that's another factor
for the Chamber to consider.
Secondly, I think it's also fair that as Councillor Ponds isn't in the room this evening and I
wish him better. I don't think it's also right that we are to discuss something as
major as this and elect a vice chairman to whom the chains can't go on and to whom
can't then vice chair the meeting with you. And the other point I wish to make, Mr Woodall
mentioned the signatures were last minute and I appreciate how politics works. I think
the constitution would allow it at 1859 if so wished. But there are names that were read
out and body language gave me a different impression to whether they were that bothered
about this nomination, but also a name of a Councillor who is not actually here in the
building was mentioned, so did that person sign a nomination paper quickly and then leave
the building? I think there is some clarity I would like there. But the main point I want
to make is we have seen it very clearly this evening from members of the LRA. I have had
the meeting and I'll say we did not agree to that at all.
We did not agree to that at all from somebody who was at the meeting.
So I don't think we should drag the LRA through internal politics but clearly something's
not adding up.
My suggestion in order to retain some dignity of those chains of office is that the second
nomination as the candidate by the way hasn't for as I can see actually personally informed
anybody that they particularly want the role today and they're not here in the meeting
to confirm if they want it or not, I think to protect dignity of the chains, that nomination
should just be withdrawn.
Cllr Alan Lion - 1:06:28
Thank you, thank you, Chair. I think, members, it's a case of we've got two candidates or
Barbara Beardwell - 1:06:37
to nominations rather for the position of vice chair.
In my view, according to the law, the constitution
and the nominations are absolutely fine.
And it's a case of voting on them,
which one members want, it's as simple as that.
On a point of order, Madam Chairman,
Madam,
sorry, Councillor, what rule are you?
Cllr Alan Lion - 1:06:59
Is it constitutional for somebody to not be nominated
for this role and not actually accept the nomination. As we know one candidate
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 1:07:07
has accepted the nomination the other one is absent from the meeting. I seek
your advice. I don't think it's a case of accepting a nomination they'd accept to
Barbara Beardwell - 1:07:16
being nominated or elected. If they're not here tonight because they're I
understand unwell then they can do it as soon as possible after tonight. I have
nothing really further to say on that Councillor McIvo. Thank you Mr Chairman.
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 1:07:33
So in a hypothetical situation, if there were 15 nominations for Councillor Risby tonight,
would we just vote and elect him as Vice -Chairman without him being here?
Is that constitutional?
Barbara Beardwell - 1:07:44
As I've said, it is constitutional.
Law requires for a vice -chair, or a chair for that matter,
to be nominated, seconded, and then voted by a majority of members in the chamber.
Now we have in the constitution a procedure where you'd normally have the 15 members.
I think that's really to get a feel of what support they'd have but the fact that it's come in well when it's come in
Or it's come in just now or we didn't have it. We had another nomination at the meeting that doesn't invalidate it
Cllr Alan Lion - 1:08:17
Okay. Thank you very much. Yeah, I think we have debated this long enough
My suggestion is we take this to the vote
So are we gonna have a vote by the show of hands?
Gary Woodhall - 1:08:30
Cllr Alan Lion - 1:08:32
Okay, so those who are in favour of Councillor Whitehouse, please show.
29, Chairman.
And those in favour of Councillor Pond?
19, Chairman.
Cllr Alan Lion - 1:09:07
Okay, so the vote is in favour of Councillor Whitehouse.
Applause.
Cllr Alan Lion - 1:09:27
So I would like to, sorry, Councillor Kaufman, you wanted to add something?
Apologies, Chair. I would just like to say some nonsense has been spoken this evening,
Cllr Howard Kauffman - 1:09:41
but I'm very pleased with the decision we've made. But I would like the Council to recognise
the contribution that Chris Pond and Caroline have made over so many years.
Now, I'm not sure how we ought to do it,
but I'd like to discuss it separately,
perhaps with the leader.
We should put on a civic dinner or some such event
for the contribution that has been made.
We've left that far too late, in my opinion,
to recognise the greatness of the man.
So if we can take that away and think,
what can we do to recognise the unbelievable contribution
that the pair of them have made to all of us.
Thank you.
Thank you, Councillor Kaufman.
Cllr Alan Lion - 1:10:31
So, Councillor Whitehouse, it is my honour to confirm that you
are appointed to serve as the Vice Chairman of Council for the
Civic Year 26 -27, and it may be the last year.
So you may be the last chairman.
So if you'd like to join me in the well.
fulfil the duties of it, I call you to rest in my ability,
justice and ability, signed David Whitehouse.
all the movers who passed.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Good -bye, everyone.
I appreciate all the consecutive Champions Associationsuspendings.
All following28 Hi -Nick and Jo from the muscles family setting8
Thank you.
Cllr Alan Lion - 1:14:19
Good evening, members. I would just like to say what a surprise it
was when I was asked if I would stand
as vice chair of the council.
And a very big thank you to all of you
who signed my nomination form and for the lovely emails
Cllr Janet Whitehouse - 1:14:32
of support that many of you sent as well.
And thank you to those of you who voted for me tonight.
I look forward to learning more about the role of vice chairman
and to serving the people of Epping Forest District.
Thank you.
Thank you.
APPLAUSE
Cllr Alan Lion - 1:14:56
So we will now move on to item 5, apologies for absence.
Mr Woodall.

5 Apologies for Absence

Thank you, Chairman.
Gary Woodhall - 1:15:09
We have apologies tonight from councillors
Will Kaufman, Maria Malcolm, Martin Morris,
Chris Pond and Kaz Risby.
Thank you.
Cllr Alan Lion - 1:15:20
Item six is declarations of interest.

6 Declarations of Interest

Do we have any declarations of interest?
No, no declarations of interest.
We now move on to item seven,

7 Minutes

the minutes of the previous meeting on pages five to 12.
Members, can we agree that these minutes are a true record of our meeting?
Thank you very much.
So we now move on to announcements.

8 Announcements

Now, I had one announcement that I was going to give after the acceptance of office, but
I missed that one out, so I shall go read that one first and then add my other one to
it afterwards.
So I'd like to thank my proposer and seconder, Councillor Lee and Councillor McCann and Councillor
Louise Mead, she's been a fantastic chairman and for inviting me to be her deputy last
year which has led on to me being elected to the prestigious office of Chairman of Epping
Forest District Council and first citizen of Epping Forest District.
Thanks to all the members of this Council that supported my nomination for all of you
in putting your trust in me at this moment time of change.
I'd like to thank the people of Grange Hill Ward in Chigwell who have voted for me as
their Councillor at parish and district level over the last 20 years.
I look forward to continuing to support them now and in the future.
It is a great honour and privilege to be considered and I gratefully accept this vital and important
role and the duties encompassed within it.
To represent all members of this council equally and deal fairly and to support those residents,
businesses and educational establishments across the district.
I would like to recognise the splendid work of our outgoing Chairman, Councillor Louise
is an example to us all.
I've learned a lot from the experience
of sitting beside her and working with her.
Always professional in all she does.
I'd also like to thank Councillor Chris Whitbread
for his support.
I should now go on and talk about my announcements.
So, who have you elected as chairman of this council
for this year?
I've lived in Chigawal for almost 30 years with my family
and have made many friends within the community.
I worked in telecommunications and saw the change from a
government department to a private company with massive
cultural and organisational changes.
Much like the change we will see from the introduction of the
local government reorganisation, the changes in technology that
have been introduced by mobile phones, broadband services,
and changes in working practise and the introduction of social media.
Working in a large organisation has been helpful in understanding
the complexities of those responsibilities lies within difficulties people have
in navigating the organisation at parish, district and county level,
always causing confusion.
On retirement, I took a role as a tour guide in a prestigious location,
meeting people from across the UK and the world.
Now looking forward to my year as chairman to meet so many of
the residents, members of our community and businesses,
and to spend more time with the community activities
and cultural events.
As chair of the Essex and Hertfordshire Digital
Innovation Zone, it's been interesting spearheading
digital services across our community,
working across district and county boundaries with both
members and officers at all levels.
That is going to be something that I'd wish to continue
to look at.
My charity this year is St. Clair's Hospice,
recognising the great work they do at their base in Thornwood,
their outreach services and their hospice at home service,
which is great and is a really respected and valued service for
those nearing the end of life in a kind and sensitive way.
I look forward to many engagements supporting the
community and the people of Epping Forest District,
and I intend to visit as many town and parish councils across
the district as I can in this year.
Just to say I will be a voting chairman.
Thank you.
Thank you.
APPLAUSE
OK, we have a number of announcements.
Can we note the key decisions that have been agreed,
set down on the agenda under B and C?
Can they be noted?
Noted.
Thank you.
Members, item D on our agenda relates to members not seeking
re -election or not re -elected.
I'd like to thank the following former councillors
for their service to Epping Forest District Council.
Councillor, sorry, no longer councillor.
Rashni Charnell Holden, Grange Hill,
Arash Adhikarni, Louton -Fairmead,
Ian Allgood, Louton Forest, Les Burrows, North Wield, Bassett,
Ian Hadley, Rural East.
Dave Stocker, Waltham Abbey North.
Shane Yerrell, Waltham Abbey West.
Elizabeth Gabbard, Buckhurst Hill East and Whitebridge.
Edward Barnard, Epping East.
Paul Keska, Onga.
Rhonda Pugsley, Rowden and Loewenazing.
Sue Jones, Thaden Boyce and Passingford.
Tim Matthews, Waltham Abbey.
Members, I would also like to make a special mention
regarding Paul Keska.
Paul has served UNGA as a ward councillor for 14 years
and is therefore entitled to a bronze long -standing
service award.
It will be my pleasure to invite Paul at a later date
to be presented with his long service award.
Thank you.
Item nine on the agenda is the report
of the appointments panel.
Oh, Councillor Lucas.
Thank you, Chairman, and congratulations
Cllr Jodie Lucas - 1:22:09
on your appointment as Chairman,
and congratulations, Councillor Whitehouse,
on Vice -Chairman Rolle.
I hope you don't mind, I just want to take this opportunity
to thank those Wolfram Abbey councillors
that either had not sought re -election
or was not successfully re -elected. Dave Stocker was a very experienced councillor and has,
I understand, retired. Councillor Shane Yerrel was a fantastic councillor for Waltham Abbey
and spoke with extreme passion through the Chamber, which I think was important to be
recognised. And lastly, I think it's a great shame, and I must mention Councillor Tim Matthews,
who I believe is present this evening.
He will be greatly missed in the Chamber, greatly missed from the Cabinet and in particular
thanks for his work with Qolis.
And I just thought it was really important.
I know there's many names there to mention but just from a Walthamabie Councillor myself
I just wanted to mention those Walthamabie Councillors so thank you very much.
Thank you.
Okay.
Cllr Alan Lion - 1:23:13
So, we now go on to item nine, reports of the appointments panel.

9 Report of the Appointments Panel

And item nine on the agenda, which you will find on supplementary two, pages 131 to 142,
So may I ask the leader of the council,
Councillor Chris Whitbread, to present the report.
Thank you, Chairman.
Cllr Chris Whitbread - 1:23:42
I have got the report in front of me now.
Obviously, the appointments panel was more interesting this year,
to say the least.
We find ourselves in a different position
to what we all were last year,
with new members joining us, a new group formed,
and different connotations that we need to be aware of this evening.
So if we start going through the report as it is,
first of all we need to recognise the group leaders
and deputy group leaders of each group as set out in recommendation 4
as the starting point.
And if we can take that as being agreed,
that would be helpful to start with.
We then have the report of each of the groups and their make -up.
If we can take that as noted.
Thank you.
We then go on to the more interesting issues of the administration of the Council and the
make -up of the cabinet and leader position.
As we now know, my group no longer have a majority, although we are the largest group
of 19. We have a group of 12 in the local residents association. We have a group of
12 in the reform group. We have a group of six for the Liberal Democrats. And we have
a group of three for Efik. And we have independent members as well in Councillor Murray. Sorry,
Councillor Rackham. Thank you. Thank you, Chris. Just to say
Cllr Sheree Rackham - 1:25:22
we are a group of 11.
We're no longer, the LRA are no longer a group of 12.
Thank you for making that clear.
So the LRA are now a group of 11.
Cllr Chris Whitbread - 1:25:33
There are now two independent members in that case.
Back there.
So two.
The last one's got a word.
There you go.
And even without an election.
And of course, we have one Labour member.
So I think that reflects the makeup of the council
at the present time.
It goes without saying we do need to have,
we are on a cabinet model here, and therefore we do need to have
a cabinet appointed.
My group is the largest group would be prepared to form a
minority administration, but that would require the support
of other parties on some votes.
And indeed, in fact, that's what we've been doing for most
of last year.
But I have got a cabinet that I am prepared to put forward.
I have not got all the cabinet posts filled as yet because obviously there has been a
lot of toing and froing and discussions going on about the best ways forward.
But I would be putting forward a nine seat cabinet and the majority of those members
would be people from the last cabinet with some additions.
But I will be able to report that more fully in a cabinet member report which is the new
way that the cabinet is progressed by Monday morning. Members that is where we
are with the cabinet and my position at the moment in taking that forward it
really is down for the agreement of council if I'm to do that.
Cllr Alan Lion - 1:27:10
Cllr Stephen Murray - 1:27:14
Councillor Murray. Thank you Chairman as we're moving to the part of the meeting
where there might be votes about particular positions,
and I am going to reference the Cabinet in a minute.
I just want to share what my clear philosophy will be
as an independent about how I'm going to vote.
I will consider each nomination for each post very carefully,
and I will vote for who I consider
to be the strongest candidate.
Obviously, that's a personal judgement,
but it will be my judgement.
I will not be influenced by any WIP or any group consideration as an independent because
I feel the district deserves to have the best person in my judgement, obviously, and people
can have different judgements.
I accept that for that role.
So that's how I will be voted.
As regards the cabinet, and though I'm not a maths teacher, I've been teaching other
things over the years, I obviously looked at the figures and the maths.
My personal position is that I think it's right that the Conservatives, and I haven't
discussed this with anyone else, my personal view is I think it's right that the Conservatives
form a minority administration because they are still the largest group by quite some
margin.
They've got 19, the next group's got 12, the other group after that's got 11, and then
we get to smaller numbers.
So, I personally think that it's quite right that they form an administration and they
form a cabinet.
But actually, it's the best of both worlds because they can, steady as they go in terms
of decision making, but they can't guarantee that everything they want will just go through
because they haven't got a majority.
And I'm sure other members will be similar to me.
Chris, Councillor Whitbread, leader of Council, you will have my full support when I consider
you to be right, and so will the cabinet, and you will have my strongest scrutiny and
my strongest possible opposition if I think you're wrong.
But your general thrust to attempt to form a minority administration I personally think
is the right step for Eppin -Foyce.
Can I just ask, are you not even in a position to name the people who you feel are going
to be in the cabinet?
I realise that you can't attach them to portfolio because you've said that, but are you not
in a position to tell us the councillors that you feel are going to make up the cabinet?
Thank you, Councillor Murray.
Cllr Chris Whitbread - 1:29:51
As I said in my initial presentation, I can name my core cabinet now, but my finance portfolio
holder will be Holly Whitbread.
My contracts person will be Ray Balcom as he currently is.
My planning person will be Ken Williamson as he currently is.
And that will be my initial thing at Casper Institute, Swoochie Patel,
all places that you know and you understand their positions.
I'm having conversations around the makeup of the portfolios at the moment
because I'm adding that extra one in, going from eight to nine.
So there is some moving around and there are some conversations to be had.
Thank you, Chairman.
Councillor Whiskin.
Cllr Stephen Murray - 1:30:33
Thank you. Can you tell us why you've added an extra position? Thank you.
Cllr Graham Wiskin - 1:30:37
To actually cover the workload of what's in the cabinet, I think when people realise how much cabinet members do,
Cllr Chris Whitbread - 1:30:44
and there is a different focus this year, we have some particular work to do
using some of Councillor Risby's portfolio that I need someone to put some more effort into.
And not because it hasn't been done, but it's expanding, it's around social cohesion and some of those areas.
And it's really important that I get that additional focus in.
There's also some different work to do with private housing separate to the HRA because of the changing legislation.
All things that I have to take notice to.
Housing is going to be much busier this year as well.
because obviously there's new regulatory pieces
that they're doing and inspections to be done.
And that's some of the logic behind
what I'm planning to do.
Councillor Bromwich.
Cllr Alan Lion - 1:31:33
Thank you very much, Chair.
And I think the last year has actually been,
Cllr Tom Bromwich - 1:31:37
I think you've put together quite a good cabinet.
Broadly speaking, it's been a responsive one.
I mean, I'd like to particularly name Councillor Balcom,
Councillor Smooty Patel and former Councillor Matthews, who I think from a personal capacity
have done an outstanding job.
So I'm very, very happy that you've indicated that they will stay in the cabinet.
Can I ask whether if it is a minority cabinet, whether you are going to be an entirely conservative
cabinet or whether you'll be incorporating one or even two members of other groups, whether
they are in a group or whether they are independents or not.
Thank you.
Cllr Chris Whitbread - 1:32:18
I am happy to reach out to other groups as well.
Thank you, Mr Chairman.
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 1:32:27
I feel there has been a slight democratic deficit in this chamber and obviously the
election has afforded for that to be addressed.
I think the outcome of the election was very clear.
On behalf of the 15 ,659 people of Epping Forest that supported my party and on behalf of my
group, we are not prepared to have confidence in the current leader of this council and
would like to move with a vote of no confidence in the leader.
But on the point of the administration, I am accepting of the numbers and it would be
against my initial point about democracy if I was to in any way try to infringe on the
political party that is to be the administration.
There are some very good people in the group who I would think my group would be prepared
after consultation to consider as a leader of the Council.
But I just want to make sure on the agenda that I make that point at the appropriate
time in order not to a, confuse things and b, to miss the opportunity to have a vote
of no confidence should I have a seconder.
Thank you.
So, Councillor MacGyver, are you actually putting forward that motion now?
Cllr Alan Lion - 1:33:38
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 1:33:40
If this is the appropriate time I'm prepared to do so. I think it is. Okay in that case
I'd like to propose that this council does not have confidence in the leader. Thank you. And have you a seconder?
Do you wish to speak?
Cllr Annie May O'Neill - 1:33:52
Councillor O 'Neill. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and congratulations on your role and likewise to vice chairman.
I think we all are here today to represent the residents and on May the 7th
they voted for change and that is why I'll be seconding Councillor McIver on a vote of no confidence to the current leader. Thank you.
Okay, so we have a proposal and a seconder.
Cllr Alan Lion - 1:34:12
Are we going to take this to the vote now?
Mr Chairman, we would like to have a named vote if possible please.
Recorded vote you're asking for?
Okay, that's absolutely fine.
We only need five.
Can you sit down, thank you, that's noted.
We've got a number of questions.
Councillor Holly Whitford.
Thank you Chairman, I can reserve my comments but will there be a debate before the vote?
Cllr Holly Whitbread - 1:34:37
Sorry? Will there be a debate before the vote? Yes, there can be.
Cllr Alan Lion - 1:34:47
There can be a debate before the vote. Yes, they can speak on it.
Cllr Lisa Morgan - 1:34:56
Councillor Morgan. Thank you very much, Chair. Like everybody
else said, congratulations and congratulations to Janet Whitehouse, who I have got to say
is always very supportive. She came over to Chigwell again on Tuesday. She is always everywhere.
So congratulations to you back. It was just a question under the Constitution. Do we not have to give seven days?
Before we put a vote with no confidence into the chair or not always that I wasn't quite sure under point four
I wasn't on two percent sure so could I just have that clarified please? Thank you
Cllr Alan Lion - 1:35:30
Barbara Beardwell - 1:35:32
This motion can be vote proposed at the meeting. Thank you cancer Mary
Yes, thank you, Jim.
Cllr Stephen Murray - 1:35:38
My point was similar to Councillor Morgan, though I accept that it can be done tonight.
This is a really big step and I really think it should have been part of the agenda to
allow members to think about it, reflect upon it.
It's not a motion that I'm prepared to accept at the moment.
I've already made it clear that I'm one of the biggest critics of the Conservative group
and I've been watching you really carefully for a long, long time and I will carry on
doing that.
But to have a vote of no confidence in the leader is almost a personal decision in the
competency of the leader.
And though I don't always agree with Councillor Whitbread's political positions, I have absolutely
no reason to believe that he is an incompetent leader and hasn't led the council in a competent
manner through a whole number of really difficult issues.
That doesn't mean that I think he always gets it right.
That's a political debate.
But to move a vote of no competence has to be really based on that person can't do the
job and there must be someone else within the group because it's been accepted within
the fact that they've got 19, that they should form a minority administration, I think that
was actually accepted by what the proposer to this motion said.
So I can find no grounds, and don't worry if they become a parent, I'll be seconding
the motion, but at this stage I can find no grounds not to have confidence in the current
leader.
Thank you.
Councillor?
Yeah, sorry.
I'm very dead.
Yeah, Councillor Whitehouse.
Cllr Alan Lion - 1:37:24
Sorry, I was hoping to hear the case of defence first as it were.
Cllr Jon Whitehouse - 1:37:33
But, yeah, I mean every year since 2006, which is the last year the Conservatives weren't in control,
the Stepping Forest District Council and I've campaigned on the basis that it's time to get the Conservatives out
and replace them with Liberal Democrats.
and I think that 20 years is too long for any party or person to be in charge.
Things get a bit stale and I think we've seen some missteps particularly recently
and particularly in regards to the cost that Qualis in particular is concerned
and the impact that's had on the council's wider finances.
Now, to move no confidence is a two -step thing,
because first there's a vote with no confidence,
and secondly, there's the who then becomes leader.
I have to say, no one's come to me and said,
if we replace the current leader,
we are going to propose X or Y or Z as a replacement leader.
And I've indicated to some people that I'm open to have those conversations
and see whether an alternative is workable.
Because we need a workable alternative if we're to replace the leader.
We need a cabinet that can run the council, put together a budget,
get a budget through council, prepare for local government reorganisation.
And I think a non -conservative cabinet would be better than a conservative cabinet.
We don't currently have a non -conservative cabinet on the table.
So, while I'm very tempted to vote for this motion,
perhaps even more so now than I would have been at 7 o 'clock.
I won't be voting in favour of it.
I also won't be voting in favour of the current leader.
We can move a no -confidence motion at any council meeting.
We can call an extraordinary council meeting to move a vote of no -confidence if there's
an alternative there to choose instead.
That can happen, that could happen if members wanted to happen.
I think probably should happen and when that happens I will vote for it. Thank you chairman. Thank you
Cllr Alan Lion - 1:40:08
Cllr Mary Dadd - 1:40:15
Thank You mr. Chairman and also congratulations and congratulations to madam vice chairman
I'm a bit confused about why council Mckiva has brought this motion
He and and the supporters are all as we see
reform
new councillors but they are new councillors they have not worked under
this administration at all and I find it disrespectful from their perspective and
having not worked with them and I will not be supporting it thank you.
Cllr Alan Lion - 1:40:46
Cllr Louise Mead - 1:40:49
Thank you chairman and before I before I talk about this can I just
congratulate councillor Janet Whitehouse and you've been a brilliant and
Eppingtown Mayor and I know you will make an amazing Vice Chairman and Chairman in the
40s of time so congratulations. I'm really worried about this because we're talking about
the people that live in the district. I think we need steadiness. We've made commitments
to residents with various plans. We need experience and I'm looking around the room I can't see
anyone has experienced as our current leader, not at the moment, not in the district.
We need to maintain long -term stability that allows the council to function with confidence.
We have local government reorganisation coming along.
And you know I've seen with our leader at the moment he understands the complexities of the
reorganisation. We have lots of new councillors here that may not even have heard of local
government reorganisation, I don't know, but it's extremely involved, it's so complex,
and it needs to be done in the correct way.
Councillor Chris Whitbread has guided this administration through the most challenging
national local pressures in the last year without losing sight of the shared purpose.
I am not a member of the Conservative group, as you know, I am a member of the Al -Tawhir
Residents Association and have been for 12 years.
I cannot see any other sensible option other than continuing with our current leader.
This is not a game, it is people's lives.
There is no other suitable option to carry us through.
We should support stability and I'm concerned that if somebody else leads the council, well
I'm pretty much guaranteed it will be a mess and we need unification.
We need unification right now for the next year at least or maybe two years.
So I would support our current leader, Councillor Chris Whitbread to continue as our leader.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Councillor Whiskin.
Thank you.
Thank you, Chairman.
I would concur.
Cllr Graham Wiskin - 1:43:13
I think the concept is fair and is reasonable to question the existence of this group.
I look at the voting pattern in Loughton and a very small percentage of the population
of Loughton voted for the Conservative rule.
And I continue to look at those figures.
Whether we like the voting patterns or not, that is the reality and that is what the population
want.
However, I do feel this is slightly premature.
There is no alternative being proffered up and I think we have to look at stability in
the initial phase of this and then we go back if there are better alternatives offered up
to us as a council.
Thank you, Councillor Whitson.
Councillor Baldwin.
Thank you, Chairman.
Yes.
Cllr Roger Baldwin - 1:44:00
I think this is a horrible political move.
of the reform group which has entered the chamber.
They're still in their political nappies, as far as I'm concerned.
And it is a move that would severely destabilise the administration.
I think that the leader, Chris Whitbread, has shown tremendous leadership over the years,
and he certainly has instilled and inspired confidence in myself, I don't know, in other councillors.
He's taken us through many crises that we've had in the Council, the whole COVID episode
and also the episode regarding the Bell Hotel.
This seems to be very, very difficult and challenging to deal with and he's led very,
very well through those difficult times.
So, again, I do not see any viable alternative that we could have confidence in and I just
want to express my full support in the leader and I hope we can continue as minority rule.
Thank you very much.
Councillor Giver.
Thank you, Mr Chairman.
It feels appropriate that as we proposed and seconded, it would have been right for me
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 1:45:16
to outline my reasons to the Chamber.
it's not something I've just thought of this evening, and then I think perhaps that might
stimulate debate, and rightly so, because it's not as though there is an obvious solution.
I want to make it very clear that my intention with the motion is to remove the leader, and
then of course I would imagine under the constitution the deputy leader, Councillor Ray Balcombe,
to whom I have full support for, would then resume the functionality of leader, and therefore
that it would be an election for a leader at a later date.
So that would be my expectation should my group's proposal be successful.
But I first of all would like to just respond to Councillor Baldwin's point.
I checked with every single member of my group.
They've all been potty trained, every single one of them.
And they all passed in full.
And it's that sort of ignorant comment,
which is why I don't think perhaps there will be much change
in the political landscape of this district and county
other than the change we saw on May the 7th.
It's that sort of comment that insults the people
that went out in their drones and saw a high turnout election
because of that level of ignorance.
And I think that's a very poor comment.
But also, if you want to be a member of the Conservative Party,
I think they'll take you,
because I think they desperately need the numbers.
Now, on the point of the no -confidence vote,
the reason I believe it's right.
Firstly, you can't ignore the democratic exercise of May 7th.
Had it been an all -out election, I believe there would have been 30 to 33 reform councillors,
that would have been a reform administration, and I haven't woken up with too much drink
over me because that happened at the county council and you saw what happened.
And today, a phenomenal AGM.
New leadership, new exciting ideas for the greater good of Essex.
But there are also some other very local reasons why I think it's just.
Neighbouring authorities, which are where the Conservative Party did very well,
where the demographics are almost the same.
Brockesbourne, often compared as a like -for -like authority.
No reform surge, Conservatives held the council.
Harlow, no reform surge, Conservatives held the council.
Enfield, Conservatives surge,
The Conservative control the council.
Epping forest, reform surge, no overall control, small conservative group.
It is therefore not unreasonable to suggest that people voted differently here in Epping
forest.
And I think they deliberately wanted to ensure that the Reform Party, as the only viable
opposition on this occasion were successful in order to remove the incumbents.
The incumbents in this case being Conservative.
But having knocked on doors in Epping Forest, I've also got why.
Why did they not want Conservatives?
Not why did they vote Reform?
Why didn't they want the local Conservatives?
And it's because of decisions of the local council.
This was not a national swing that just saw Reform take a load of seats in Epping Forest.
This was people deliberately voting differently, locally, because of the local administration.
And the Bell Hotel comes to mind immediately.
Not because of the single isolated incident, there were many, but the total lack of leadership
that this community had when it so desperately needed it.
You can't blame the officers in comms for getting it wrong.
It starts at the top.
And the dragging of senior levels of office to sign letters that are insulting to victims of crime,
the way in which the people of Epping were insulted by the way that they were treated by this authority,
can't go ignored.
And neither can the outcome of the election.
Qualis. Oh my God, if I had a pound for every time that came up on the doorstep.
For the record, I think there are individuals in Qalis who are so unfairly treated by the
poor reputation Qalis has because the comms and the leadership behind the entire project
was not fought out.
I brought this up in scrutiny time and time again.
The final point I would like to make, these are just three local reasons, I could list
many but if I am restricted to one last point it will be this.
The constitutional changes to the planning rules that see local councillors unable to
vote on planning applications in their own area came up time and time again.
Time and time again.
A decision that was forced on us with panic, I call it panic buying in the chamber.
You know, we're going to end up like Uttlesford if we don't do this.
And all the professional advice says otherwise.
And I see the later item on the agenda which is quite hysterical in this context.
So Mr Chairman, those are three reasons.
My proposal to the Chamber, because this isn't ill -thought -out,
I believe we should have a vote on the leader.
I would hope that that vote would be in the favour of my position,
our position, the people out there's position,
and I would then hope that we begin a process to elect a new leader
with the deputy leader being the leader in the interim.
Thank you, Councillor O 'Donohoe.
For the stability of our people.
Thank you.
Move on to Councillor Soongar.
Thank you, Chairman.
Cllr Alan Lion - 1:50:40
Can I start off by saying congratulations on your appointment
Cllr Darshan Sunger - 1:50:43
and just to say that if you look behind you there's a wall and there's many many names
that have actually been the Chairman and believe it or not you're not the new Chairman, you're
actually the fourth Chairman that's come from Chigwalt and we're very proud to have you
there as a Chairman, so congratulations to you.
I'd just like to speak on the motion really, vote of no confidence. It's a day and night
commitment. It really is. It's a poisonous challenge at times and we need stability
during the times of uncertainty with LGR.
We needed stability and the leader stabilised a very rocky boat during significant choppy
waters. Covid, pandemic and the departure of our chief executive and reinstating our new chief
Executive now. Decisive action about TEBS. Members, I have so much respect for each and
every one of you in this chamber and the sacrifices that we all make and represent our residents
and I trust you do. I ask many of your, I ask you how many of your residents have written
to you requesting the removal of this administration and if the answer to that is none then you
have a duty to represent your residents by making a best interest decision for them.
I shall not be supporting this motion. Those at the forefront of this motion have prioritised
their own personal gains above and beyond the needs of our residents. I shall not be
supporting this motion. Thank you.
Cllr Alan Lion - 1:52:35
Thank you Councillor Turner. We move on to Councillor Lee.
Thank you Chairman and congratulations to both of you.
Cllr Jeane Lea - 1:52:46
First I have to say this is the most undemocratic meeting that I have ever attended in my 22 years as a Councillor.
This motion to get rid of the leader is obviously just a personal one on who likes who. I have
nothing against people that have voted Reform. When I went round, everyone was saying to
me I'm voting for Nigel Farage. They had no idea they were voting locally at all. All
they thought was they were voting to get a new Member in Parliament. So half the people
had no idea who they were voting for or what for. But don't tell me it's rubbish, that's
what happened on the door. And don't be rude while I'm speaking Jamie, you should know
better. Never mind that. Jamie and I worked together from the first day he became a councillor
and we worked very well together. But as for all of you standing up for a vote of no confidence,
You do not know this person. You have not worked in here. So how can you give a
voter no confidence when you don't know how he works or what he's done? Once
you've been in the council a year, see how he's done, what, you know, what
decisions he's making, which I fully support him anyway after 22 years. Yes, of
course I don't always agree and him and Holly I'll tell you I often disagree
about different things. I don't agree with all conservative policies but that
doesn't mean that they're all wrong but you cannot vote saying a vote of no
confidence when you have not worked in this chamber. You may be a councillor
somewhere else, you may never have been one before but you cannot make that
decision because you don't have a clue and until you've worked as a councillor
here working with the people. Don't just smirk because what I'm saying is true
When I became a councillor 22 years ago, I wouldn't have a clue.
Councillor Lee, can I ask you to continue with your point?
I'm very sorry because all I've heard here is everybody being run down.
Your microphone's off.
Oh, everybody, it feels to me like we've all been run down from the new party.
I don't have a problem with the new party, but until you've been a councillor, worked.
And most of these people I've worked with for years,
and I have a lot of respect and time for all our officers,
but I feel with what's gone on tonight,
it's not only running us down,
but it's running the officers down.
And this is a very well -run council.
So I certainly wouldn't be supporting this motion.
Thank you, Councillor Lee.
Cllr Alan Lion - 1:55:37
I've got one, two, three, four, five, six,
seven more speakers,
and I will cut the debate after that because I think we've probably had enough comment.
So I'll move to Councillor Cohen.
Thank you Mr Chairman. First of all congratulations to you on your elevation
Cllr Richard Cohen - 1:55:55
and congratulations to Madam Vice Chairman on her elevation as well.
Out of great respect to Chris Pond who's not just a politician but he's a historian as well.
in our illustrious Epping Forest District Council.
And harking back to our most illustrious MP,
Winston Churchill, when they tried to deselect him,
I quote the words of Edmund Burke,
which have just disappeared.
Because half a dozen grasshoppers under a fern
make the field ring with their importunate chink,
Whilst thousands of great cattle repose beneath the shadow of the British oak, chew the cud
and are silent, pray do not imagine that those who make the noise are the only inhabitants
of the field.
Thank you.
Cllr Alan Lion - 1:56:56
Okay, can we move on to Councillor Bedford?
Cllr Nigel Bedford - 1:57:06
Thank you. Congratulations, as everybody else has been congratulating you both and to see
your thoughts. I'm pleased to see both of you in position. This is a very difficult
one and I speak from the heart here because I have known Chris for a number of years and
worked with Chris. I've even deputised for Chris when a county to do with some of the
work that's been going on with LGR. I have to say that I'm disappointed in the motion
it's been brought forward today
because it's been brought forward without a lot of thought.
And I do think it's very personal,
but I do believe and I know
that this council needs strong leadership.
It needs guidance and it needs dedication.
And I have to say, Chris has given it,
given all of those and their outstanding qualities
of a person that can take this council forward
through the LGR review process.
There are times when I don't agree with Chris, but there again, he is the leader, so we do
as a total.
But I do believe as we move forward to the LGR and the devolution, we don't want spanners
in the works.
What we want is a smooth transition from one organisation where this organisation is fully
represented as we move forward.
That's not going to happen by just getting rid of someone and saying we need a new leader.
We need someone who's actually been in there, been in the thick of it, who's been dealing
with other organisations, been dealing with officers from across the county.
It needs to happen.
The savings need to come.
They will come, but it's got to be a smooth transitional process.
I don't believe that Reform Councillors that did stand up tonight, and I don't want to
put political head on, they don't really know what Chris does.
they were just following the leader, which is fair enough.
That's their political will.
That's what they want to do.
But I do believe that the councillors that sit here
that have been longstanding councillors for a number
of years know the work that Chris puts
into the smooth running in the council.
When there are problems, there are problems.
But he always brings them back to the members of this council.
And as Councillor Murray said, Councillor Murray,
I look as the Godfather. He overlooks all of us.
He picks up when he's happy. He used to score the cabinet.
When he's not happy, he doesn't score the cabinet.
He gives us a reprimand when I was there.
So I will not be supporting this. And I hope that many members here today who
have the common sense to realise this is a shenanigans and a charade being put forward
will see straight through it and we can get on with the rest of the evening because it
is dragging on and I hope that I've summed it up for a lot of councillors that may not
now need to speak. Thank you, Chair.
Thank you very much. We've got a few more people to speak but can I ask you to keep
Cllr Alan Lion - 2:00:06
it short. Councillor Rackham.
Cllr Sheree Rackham - 2:00:13
Thank you. I'd also like to add my congratulations to both of you. I know that there have been
a lot of councils across the country finding themselves in the same situation as we are
now. And I wondered whether now might be the time to consider alternatives to the leader
and cabinet model. Thank you.
Cllr Alan Lion - 2:00:34
Barbara Beardwell - 2:00:39
If I could just, sorry, come in there. I'm not sure, I'm going through it in detail,
but there's a very significant act that was passed on the 29th of April this year.
It's called the English Devolution and Community Empowerment Act.
And one thing it does, that Schedule 1 is prevent councils from moving from a leader
and cabinet to a committee system.
It stops them doing it.
So it's not something this council could look at, is what I'm saying.
So that answers the question.
Thank you.
Okay, can we move on to Councillor Holly Whitbury?
Cllr Alan Lion - 2:01:17
Thank you, Chairman.
Cllr Holly Whitbread - 2:01:22
Obviously, it's difficult for me to talk about the individual in this debate.
But I went into local politics for two reasons.
One was Eppin Forest, specifically Eppin, where I'm very proud to represent the Eppin
Forest district.
and the second was a belief in public service.
And that was a belief that was instilled in me
from a very young age.
Over the years, I've watched my dad, the leader,
come to this council night after night,
actually missed many family meals and family occasions,
through dedication to this district and this council.
This is a really difficult time of change for this Council.
And actually, over the past few years, we've seen a spirit of collaboration across the
Chamber.
I was given the very difficult task after Councillor Philip lost his seat of taking
on the finance portfolio holder role.
And in that role, I always vowed to work collaboratively across the Chamber, which is something I
achieved and worked together. But throwing this council into chaos at a time of change
is not good for Eppin Forest. And I think that's something that most of us here can
see. We're here for Eppin Forest and the residents of Eppin Forest. And we've been told to keep
it brief this evening, and I will. And certainly the electorate in Eppin Forest did vote for
change. We saw a change in the patterns and there was certainly a message. Some, as Councillor
Lee quite rightly says, was national. Take it from someone who knocked on thousands of
doors and there was a national message. But there are local concerns as well. And that's
something that we try and address and work towards every day. But something that I believe
this district and the people of this district, and actually most importantly the majority
of people in this chamber also believe in is decency and doing the decent thing for Epenforest.
And I would remind people that the person who proposed this motion not so long ago stood outside
this chamber and called us all pigs. He said we were all pigs with our heads in the trough.
And you know I won't even go into the reasons he was expelled from the Conservative Party because
they are well documented.
But let's talk about decency.
And if we want someone like this,
pulling the strings and throwing this council,
which is well run into chaos,
we would vote with this motion this evening.
But if we want to do the right thing for Eppin Forest
and the decent thing for the people of Eppin Forest,
we vote against this motion this evening.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you very much.
Cllr Alan Lion - 2:04:21
Councillor Shaw.
Good evening everybody. Hope you can hear me.
Cllr Geoff Shaw - 2:04:28
This is my maiden speech.
I wasn't expecting to say anything this evening, but I'm here now.
I'm not a politician. My background was a director of Kiers and another major construction company.
And that is my background.
Earlier this year I started trying to look into the accounts of Qalis.
And I found that the auditors couldn't sign off this year's accounts.
The losses, are they 20 million? Are they 40 million pounds?
Now, from my background, the people who were responsible for setting up this company,
who I think perhaps is the leader of the House and a few of his colleagues,
should be held accountable for those losses and for that business.
And in where I come from, anybody who has been responsible and accountable
for a business losing that sort of money would resign.
Now, are we going to be sitting here next year?
You say, yes, we mustn't change because it's all comfortable.
Are we going to be sitting here next year looking at another 20 million loss?
Or are we going to get some change into this council?
What are we going to say to the residents?
20 million loss?
I mean, I don't know exactly how much the rates are.
Do the rates collect about 10 or 15 million a year or something like that?
I'm not quite sure.
How are we going to tell the residents that, I'm sorry, but we owe another, we have lost
another 20 million on our fancy developments that we thought we would
carry out. Thank you.
Cllr Alan Lion - 2:06:18
Cllr Craig McCann - 2:06:27
Thank you Mr Chairman. I won't repeat the points that have gone before me. I would just to say I
won't be supporting this motion. I fully support the leader. I think drawing up on
some of the words that have been spoken by councillors
across this chamber, words like stability, competence,
change management, leadership, collaboration.
Councilman Givens has not addressed any of those points
in his motion, okay.
These are all the qualities, the attributes
that we expect of a leader.
I think this is entirely personally driven.
Grievance and bitterness from a councillor.
if he wasn't chucked out of our party, he'd be sitting over here.
So let's be clear exactly where this is coming from.
And on the point around, one of the central planks of his argument
was around the unconstitutional nature of the changes to the planning committees.
I remember very vividly him standing right over there when that
vote was being cast.
And actually said the words, this is constitutional vandalism.
And then voted for it anyway.
So you didn't? Watch the video. You can't believe a word he said.
So I will not be voting for the motion and I implore councillors to search their own sense of integrity
and the duty of those of the people of this district to not vote for this motion. Thank you.
Councillor Whitburn.
Cllr Alan Lion - 2:07:52
Cllr Chris Whitbread - 2:07:57
Thank you, Chairman. Since I've been talked about quite a bit this evening, I thought I might as well say a few bits
in response and I think, yes we have had a difficult set of elections, yes we have seen
a national trend towards reform and we've got the evidence of it here this evening.
But what is local and what matters to people really is what we achieve locally. And Councillor
Murray said very early on, he always holds me to account in the best way possible through
scrutiny. We heard that Councillor MacIver says that he goes on a regular basis to
scrutiny and he holds us to account. Councillor Murray is
correct and Councillor Murray is here all the time whether it be cabinet or
scrutiny always joins in. I have to tell you the only place I ever see Councillor
MacIver is at full council six times a year. He plays no part in the council
doesn't really know what's going on. So let's let's look at what we've achieved.
Over the past 12 years, we've built council houses of a high quality.
Oh, and quality were involved in that as well, Councillor Shaw.
So do your homework first. 28 new units this year alone.
We've built two sports centres, one in Waltham Abbey, one in Epping.
We've invested in maintaining our support of Citizens' Advice Bureaus,
and we've done everything we should be doing.
On top of that, we've kept the lowest council tax in Essex.
So we have a really tough job to do as we move forward.
It's not just about LGR.
LGR is happening and will happen.
And it needs to happen because otherwise councils will be
financially unsustainable.
Last year we saw how tough it was and we're working together,
we managed to achieve it, to get a balanced budget.
But finances will not get any easier.
The government was not kind to us with the three -year settlement
of grant funding.
So we have a lot to do there.
And I'm not hiding away from the challenges we will have on a
whole range of issues.
And I'm not asking just to vote for stable.
But what I will say to you, I work with everybody and we do
the right thing as a council for the future.
Thank you.
Applause
Cllr Alan Lion - 2:10:20
OK, we have Councillor Nwiecki.
Thank you, Chair.
Cllr Chidi Nweke - 2:10:29
Just sitting here listening to the debate and a few words stood out to me, which is strong leadership, stability and accountability.
For me, those words are huge.
They're important for the council.
And I think they are very important for us to be able to deliver our duties
and to represent our residents here.
And another word that stood out to me as well is change.
Change is difficult most times, and change is not a bad thing.
and sometimes change can bring an improvement and good things.
So I'm not scared of change or worried about change.
But my issue is the timing.
I think the timing of the motion is not well thought of.
And for that reason I struggle with it.
It's not that I'm against the motion, but I think the timing is not right.
And we need to look at stability, we need to look at strong leadership.
and besides what we have now, how do we assure strong leadership? How do we assure stability?
So that's what we need to address. Thank you.
Thank you very much. Councillor Morgan.
Cllr Alan Lion - 2:11:47
Cllr Lisa Morgan - 2:11:51
Thank you. I'd first like to say, yes, both Councillor Whitford and I don't see eye to
hardly ever on any occasion but he has led us through some very very difficult
times and what concerns me more is the fact that as we just heard from
Councillor Nariki this might be the wrong time because we're going to have some
really tough times ahead of us but not only that if Councillor Wickford does
I would say the leader, he is going to get some very tough times ahead from opposition
right across the chamber.
So my position, I really just don't know, I'm more confused now than when Councillor
McIver first said it.
Is this not something that we should possibly take to an extraordinary meeting?
I know we started them, but so that people can actually have a look, have a think, decide,
because things are being put forward that...
I am very confused now. When it was said, I was a bit like, oh, I didn't expect that,
but we did discuss it in the appointments panel and we did ask the monitoring officer
about committee -based stuff, just in case. I am surprised it happened, but I am really
confused because do we, to a vote of no confidence in the leader and have a deputy that is incredibly
good and that I've got to say is I say incredibly good because I speak to him on a weekly basis
about rubbish and we do talk lots of rubbish together. But not only that, do we do that
or do we go to an EGM and look at it then rather than have the leader of the council
get lots of grief for the next year? I just don't know. So I'm actually stuck in, I'm
the fence on this which I'm afraid unlike me as everybody will know so thank you.
Cllr Alan Lion - 2:13:52
Thank you. Okay we have um one two three so we've got uh Councillor Karen McIver.
Cllr Karen McIvor - 2:14:01
Thank you chair and I'd also like to congratulate you both on your um on your elections this evening
um and I wish you a very a very good year both of you. And congratulations to you. Thank you we
share a special day. So yes, it's interesting this evening, my first
opportunity of being in this chamber. All I've heard from this side of the chamber
is silly to your childlike behaviour, name calling, pointing, whatever. I also heard
it over there. I think what we need to do is be grown -ups here. We need to listen
to what the people of Eppin Forest have said at the ballot box on
7th of May. Overwhelmingly, I believe there were 18 seats and 11 of them went to reform.
The people of Epping Forest have spoken. Now you can all do your silly childlike comments
and sniggling and pointing like school teachers or saying silly things like nappies. That
doesn't help the situation. Yeah, go on, you laugh. That doesn't help the situation we
in here, chair. People of Epping Forest, whether my colleagues on the left here like it or
not have voted for change and the insults that we are being thrown at this evening that
we don't know what we're doing, that is disgusting and the people of Epping Forest are watching
this and they know who is saying this to us. Please listen to the people of Epping Forest
who have voted on the 7th of May. We need change, they have voted for change. Please
respect that before you start throwing your insults. Thank you.
Thank you.
Cllr Alan Lion - 2:15:47
Councillor Caulfman.
Cllr Howard Kauffman - 2:15:58
Thank you, Chair. Just a quick word. Firstly, welcome to Councillor Shaw. Your inaugural
speech. You've obviously been in the property game, the property development business. I'm
sure you've had a few things that have gone wrong in your career. You're old enough to
experience ups and downs. You haven't yet nodded, but I know you with your grey hairs
would have experienced good and bad of property. And you're smiling, which means you have.
And you would have suffered. But what I'd like you to do is come to the next Coeles
meeting. Come in, come and see what's happened. Understand it so you can talk with authority
and knowledge. There are things that you are not aware of, you need to be aware of. For
instance, when QALYST took over the running of the council's property portfolio, the gross
income was 8 .5 million a year. The rent is now coming in at 12, I think just under 12
million. I need officers to confirm that. I think we're up to just over 12 million.
So additional two and a half, three million of revenue has been created by Qolis, Good,
Active Management of our own portfolio.
We have kissed a few frogs.
The world has been very challenging in property since Brexit actually.
The last 10 years of property have been a right bugger, okay.
But we're still here, we're still standing.
We are trying to do delivery of quite a few affordable homes which we've delivered.
We've managed to achieve a very good rating for the council houses.
We've got an enormous estate.
Try and run, I don't know, 15 ,000 gas boilers.
You're going to have people complaining.
There are things that go wrong.
But by and large, that team is brilliant.
It's producing good money.
It has had some issues.
And I would welcome you to come to a meeting.
We'll talk it through and you will understand where we come from.
I will not be supporting the issue.
I think it's very malicious tonight.
Get your feet under the table.
get comfortable, understand it, then come and complain when you're ready.
Not now. Thank you.
Thank you.
Cllr Alan Lion - 2:17:58
Members, time is moving on.
I will ask Councillor O 'Neill to sum up at the end of this.
I will make it quick. Thank you, Chairman.
Cllr Annie May O'Neill - 2:18:10
I just want to open your eyes to one last question.
I myself am a new member. I'm 20 years old.
I'm new to local government and so are many of the new members.
Now the current leader has been proclaimed as strong, you know, democratic, fair.
He has not once introduced himself to me or my other members since I have been elected
on May 7th.
Do you believe as a council that is a strong leader that we want to represent Epping Forest?
Thank you.
Thank you very much.
OK, so I don't have any more speakers.
Cllr Alan Lion - 2:18:45
Just checking up.
We are late in the evening, we have a lot to get through, so I think we have to put
this to the vote.
It's going to be a recorded vote, thank you very much.
That was already established at the beginning of the debate.
So Mr Woodall, could be a Councillor, Mr Woodall, can I ask you to record the vote?
What an insult, Councillor. Okay so we have a motion no confidence in the leader.
Gary Woodhall - 2:19:16
This will take a few minutes I'll go through you alphabetically when I call
your name I want you just to answer for if you are in favour of the motion of no
confidence against obviously if you are against it or abstain if you have no
view one way or the other so if you vote for you want the leader to be changed
If you vote against you want the leader to remain.
Is that clear everybody.
Cool.
OK.
Council rabbit for cancer Ramos.
Do we also use our microphones please as well.
Council.
Welcome against Council.
Baldwin against Councillor Bassett against Councillor
Batley for Councillor Bedford against Councillor Braja
Councillor Bromwich against Councillor Brooks against
Councillor Church. Against. Councillor Barbara Cohen. Against. Councillor Richard Cohen. Against.
Councillor Cornish. Against. Councillor Dadd. Against. Councillor Dawkins. For.
4. Councillor George. Abstain. Councillor Gupta. 4. Councillor Heather. Against. Councillor
Councillor LYONS. Against.
Councillor LUCAS. Against.
Councillor McCann. Against.
Councillor Jamie McIver. For.
Councillor Karen McIver. For.
Councillor Meade. Against.
Councillor Lisa Morgan. Abstain.
Councillor Richard Morgan against Councillor Murray against at this stage
Councillor Enwetke abstain Councillor O 'Neill for Councillor Owen
say councillor Parsons against councillor Patel against councillor Rackham abstain
councillor Sharif abstain councillor Shaw or councillor small before
Councillor Sanga. Against.
Councillor Webb. For.
Councillor Chris Whitbread. Against.
Councillor Holly Whitbread. Against.
Councillor John Whitehouse. Abstain.
Councillor Janet Whitehouse. Abstain.
Councillor Wilding Barrett for Councillor Williamson against
Councillor whisking against thank you members
that's 12 for
29 against the motion. Eight abstentions so the motion falls. The motion falls.
Cllr Alan Lion - 2:23:38
Thank you. Can we ask Councillor Whitbread to continue?
Cllr Chris Whitbread - 2:23:47
Thank you Chairman and thank you members. If we then go on to the committee nominations
for 26 -27 as set out.
The Audit and Governance Committee has five members plus two co -opted members.
I think that is the correct number as shown on the report.
Mr Woodall?
So at the moment the papers are showing two conservative nominations, one Lib Dem, one
longer a member of the LRA and is now an independent so if that is scratched we
would have the five members unless the LRA want to nominate someone to replace
in which case we'd have to drop the Labour nomination. I'll nominate
Councillor Chris Pond.
Cllr Louise Mead - 2:24:54
Gary Woodhall - 2:25:01
I think in that case, Chairman Leader, we would have to remove Councillor Morris because
he's not entitled to a seat.
Cllr Chris Whitbread - 2:25:14
Before we do that, Councillor Morris is the most regular attender of that committee and
probably one of the most analytical from that point of view.
Is there a ceiling?
I'm happy to withdraw that if it means Councillor Morris has a place.
Cllr Louise Mead - 2:25:27
Cllr Alan Lion - 2:25:33
Cllr Chris Whitbread - 2:25:37
Thank you. I'll move forward then to the Constitution Working Group as set out. I don't believe
there's any conflicts on that one. So we can take that as agreed.
We then go on to the licencing committee.
What I meant to do when I announced this committee,
remind members that they must be fully,
new members, that they must be fully trained before they can
actually sit on the committee.
And so that's really important.
I know the training has been organised or may have already
started to happen.
But that's really important that training is done in order to be
on that committee.
We've got it as set out.
I still feel we're short of licencing subcommittee chairman,
but I don't believe that's essential at this stage,
but useful later on.
Mr. Woodall, is that correct?
It would be helpful if the LRA could nominate
at least one person tonight.
Gary Woodhall - 2:26:34
I believe, looking at their nominations,
I have someone who is trained and has experience
in being a licencing subcommittee chairman.
Just jump on the nominees.
Obviously I'm talking about you, Councillor Mead.
So that's the fourth chairman we've got now for that group.
We can always have another couple of nominations later on.
Cllr Alan Lion - 2:27:03
Excuse me, Leader, does Councillor Whitehouse want to nominate anybody to be confirmed?
Well, I mean, Councillor Cornish might be willing to be a chairman once she's trained,
Cllr Jon Whitehouse - 2:27:10
but perhaps we'll have to leave it there.
Thank you, Chairman. And it's not unusual to come back at the next full council and
Cllr Chris Whitbread - 2:27:19
confirm any missing appointments. So that's nothing unusual.
If we then move on to—
Sorry, Chairman, can I interrupt? I've just realised that we only at the moment have 13
Gary Woodhall - 2:27:29
nominations were still too short so the Conservatives have only nominated four
so they can they're entitled to nominate one more and obviously that leaves
potentially a place for either an independent or Councillor Morris as a
single member group. Okay to make sure that we do it correctly I'll bring our
next one forward to the next full council. Okay.
Cllr Chris Whitbread - 2:27:58
I won't be looking for a place.
I'm a Methodist teetotaler.
Cllr Stephen Murray - 2:28:03
Okay.
Cllr Chris Whitbread - 2:28:08
Overview and scrutiny committee, 15 members, as set out.
I think there was just a...
Yeah.
So there's just...
set out on the paper. I believe there was a LRA we're going to pop for the
Cllr Graham Wiskin - 2:28:31
chairman. Councillor Whiskin. Can we have clarity that we are now the third largest
group and overview and scrutiny is offered to the second largest group and
on that basis we should proceed that it goes to reform. Yes that is correct
Gary Woodhall - 2:28:50
Councillor Whiskin. So if we look at overview and scrutiny committee with the horizontal
allocation it leaves us a spare place and obviously Councillor Murray likes to be on
the overview and scrutiny committee and we have to find two seats for the independent members so
that is good. The LRA are now 11 members not 12 therefore they are the third largest group they
not one of the two joint second largest groups, so reform would be the second largest group.
So the LRA currently cannot nominate to the chairmanship of overview and scrutiny. However,
there are two further nominations required for the general membership from the LRA.
Councillor Morgan.
Cllr Lisa Morgan - 2:29:40
Thank you, Chair. This probably has nothing to do with me, but just for clarification,
so one of the LRA members has now become independent. Does that mean that they get two seats? Because
you are going through this allocation and I didn't hear anything spoken about the two
seats for the independent that has now become an independent. Is that odd that it is still
now I'm confused so can I have some clarification from the leader thank you
thank you cast Morgan each individual independent member has their own
Cllr Chris Whitbread - 2:30:12
allocation as part of that pro rata and we went through the other day at the
appointments panel whether or not this has changed the pro rata and at all
which mr. Wood always told me it hasn't that would be the only difference from
On the point of view of e -fig you get more, it's nothing to do with you because you're
a large group.
Sorry, it was just something that I was asking because you were talking about it but I realised
Cllr Lisa Morgan - 2:30:36
that somebody had left the LRA so does that change the allocation and the new member gets
Please stand up.
And the new independent gets it.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Councillor Murray.
You don't want to answer.
Cllr Stephen Murray - 2:30:56
And the point of being independent is you often go around the chamber upset in different
groups.
But that's, I say it as it is.
Unless the paperwork has changed, I see that reform has three places, but at the moment
he's making four nominations.
I'm looking at a page three, overview and scrutiny.
and we've got Councillor McIver, Councillor Cook, Councillor Gallo and
Councillor Shaw and the paperwork at the top says there's three places. I have
Cllr Alan Lion - 2:31:36
got another point I want to make. Okay I think there's a couple of questions here
Gary Woodhall - 2:31:40
so let's start with them in order. So if we go to Councillor Lisa Morgan's. I did
rerun the pro rata spreadsheet this afternoon about an hour before the
meeting when I found out about councillor Owen becoming independent as
you're aware from the appointments panel there is both horizontal and vertical
proportionality so the horizontal proportionality there were no changes so
all the committee's horizontally were the same vertically the proportionality
meant that as an independent member councillor Owen is entitled to two seats
in his own right, same way that Councillor Murray is and the same way that Councillor
Morris is, even though he's not, strictly speaking, independent, he's just a single
member group because he's the only Labour Councillor. Councillor Murray is right, Reform
have made one extra nomination which they're not entitled to, so we would be asking the
Reform group to remove one of those nominations.
I've got other people to speak first.
Councillor Rackham.
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 2:32:43
Cllr Alan Lion - 2:32:44
Sorry, Chairman, I think that's another point from us.
Oh, sorry, carry on.
Cllr Stephen Murray - 2:32:48
And this will be where I won't get your name and the support.
I completely, completely accept the right for reform to chair our review and scrutiny
committee because that's something I fought for for a long, long time and it wasn't always
the case in this chamber. We, for many years, had a Conservative chairman when we had a
Conservative cabinet. So I'm very happy with the principle. I just have to say strongly,
I'm strongly of the opinion that reforms should be nominating a completely new member to be
chairman of overview and scrutiny. If Essex County Council can have completely new portfolio
holders, completely new chairman of council, the quickest way to learn is to jump straight
in the deep end.
And though I accept it's completely within their group's decision to nominate for chairman
O &S, I would be very, very happy if it was another member of their group and I don't
mind which one.
Thank you very much.
Councillor Rackham.
Cllr Alan Lion - 2:33:55
Councillor Whisky.
Cllr Graham Wiskin - 2:34:00
Can you, Mr Wood, please clarify there are gaps in the LRA allocation and if there are I'd like to propose Councillor Rackham.
Gary Woodhall - 2:34:11
Chairman, yes as I said the paperwork currently shows that the LRA nominations are
for the overview and scrutiny are Councillor Whiskin and then two TBCs, a to be confirmed.
I have Councillor Richard Cohen and Councillor Barbara Cohen down for overview and scrutiny.
Cllr Louise Mead - 2:34:27
I'm told by Councillor Cohen she doesn't want to do it, so any takers?
Councillor Nwaki, do you want to do it?
Sorry, it's a little bit of a week.
Thank you. Can I suggest we come back on that if it's okay because at the moment
Cllr Chidi Nweke - 2:34:48
we're not clear where we're... can we come back on that?
No, we can set it now, Councillor Rackham.
Cllr Louise Mead - 2:34:54
Cllr Alan Lion - 2:35:01
Mr Chairman, my apologies for numerical confusion.
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 2:35:21
and the reform group will withdraw Councillor Kelleher from the overview and scrutiny.
Thank you.
Okay.
Cllr Alan Lion - 2:35:33
Gary, are we okay now?
Gary Woodhall - 2:35:39
So we now have, well when the LRA give us their other two nominations, we will now have
15 members of overview and scrutiny.
So that meets that.
Thank you chairman.
Chairman, the only question we have outstanding
is Councillor Murray's point that whilst he accepts
Cllr Chris Whitbread - 2:36:01
it has to be the majority group
who chair overview and scrutiny.
The question over Councillor MacGyver's nomination
is of concern to myself as well
for that particular role.
But do we need to have a vote on whether or not...
Hello?
Councillor Murray.
Yeah, Chairman, I wasn't necessarily going to put it on to a vote,
Cllr Stephen Murray - 2:36:33
but I just wanted to make it clear personally,
I felt I wanted one of the other two.
I realise now it couldn't have been any member of their group.
They would have to be a member of O &S.
I would like to see one of the two new members.
But that's up to the group.
I've made my point.
I felt I needed to make it for a number of reasons,
which I won't go into,
but I've made my point and I don't need to push it to a vote.
Councillor McIver.
One minute my group are in nappies,
next minute they should be chairing
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 2:37:02
the most senior committee of scrutiny.
Honestly, you cannot make this up.
I'm so pleased these meetings are webcast,
but I really accept the point that Councillor Murray has made
and it's not lost on me.
and I sincerely look forward to very good scrutiny on that committee.
A committee that I have served as a vice chairman of in the past
and also a committee that I have been a member of
and I've also had experience on the committees of all of the other scrutiny committees.
So in terms of my group's talents and experience as of today,
I think that is the best nomination,
but I can tell you now I have people in this group that are far, far, far more qualified than me
and once their feet are under this table,
I sincerely look forward to seeing them chairing many committees.
Thank you Mr Chairman and thank you for the well made point.
Councillor Whitbury, can we carry on?
Thank you very much Chairman.
Cllr Alan Lion - 2:37:48
Cllr Chris Whitbread - 2:37:51
Communities panel as set out, we've just one to be confirmed by the LRA.
We have a chairmanship place on communities, don't we?
I understand.
Cllr Louise Mead - 2:38:04
So we're asking for Councillor Nowicki to be chairman and Councillor Rose
Brooks on the committee.
Councillor George. Hi good evening everyone I'm a bit confused who then
Cllr Mandy George - 2:38:26
therefore is the chairman for overview and scrutiny because a lot of
students throw in and who's gonna be in it who's not going to be on it so who is
going to be the chairman or chairperson for over -inscrutiny. Thank you. That needs to
be confirmed. I believe that's the second largest group
Cllr Alan Lion - 2:38:44
for them to decide. Okay, thank you. Confirmed. Thank you, Jamie.
Cllr Chris Whitbread - 2:38:56
Thank you. Can we carry on? So we've had the additional from the LRA
and the nomination of a chairman. So we can agree the Communities Scrutiny
Committee. We then move on to the Place Committee as set out. With all members in
place can we take that as being agreed? We just need a nomination for Vice
Chairman for that Place Scrutiny Committee please.
Gary Woodhall - 2:39:21
Cllr Stephen Murray - 2:39:26
Councillor Murray. Councillor Murray. Yeah I do sometimes try and be helpful and
unless I've missed it. Have we got a chairman for communities scrutiny
Gary Woodhall - 2:39:40
committee? Yes Chairman the LRA have just proposed
Cllr Chris Whitbread - 2:39:43
Mr Kastanouecki.
Sorry, I missed that.
Okay.
Can we move on, then?
Thank you.
No places agreed?
Agreed.
Thank you.
We need a nomination for Vice -Chairman for Place, please.
Okay.
Nomination for Vice -Chairman for Place.
Nobody wants to do it.
Chairman, can that not be appointed at the place committee?
It can be.
Cllr Alan Lion - 2:40:17
I don't see any reason why not.
Cllr Chris Whitbread - 2:40:19
Nobody's prepared for it.
From obviously, from the body of members you have there, have at the first meeting have
a vote as to who will be the vice chairman.
We then move on to most importantly the planning committees, Planning Committee A. As set out,
can we take that as being agreed?
Apologies, Chair, there's one late change
Cllr Jon Whitehouse - 2:40:42
for the Lydam nominations for Zia Sharif
and not Tiffy Cornish.
For?
For plans A.
For plans, okay.
Councillor Owen.
Cllr Alan Lion - 2:40:53
Could I please for my two positions
Cllr Michael Owen - 2:40:56
go on Planning Committee A and B, thank you.
Thank you.
Carry on, Councillor Whitbread.
Cllr Alan Lion - 2:41:03
Thank you. I've just taken on board Councillor Owen's point.
Councillor Woodall, are there any positions?
Councillor Mr...
Second time this evening.
But I said it once.
Gary Woodhall - 2:41:21
We don't have any spare nominations as such on that committee. Unfortunately the Independents
and single member groups do kind of, you know,
they don't really get a huge amount in say
in the committees that they get nominated to.
And with both planning committees being nine members,
it would mean one of the other groups
would have to give up a place.
Councillor Dab.
It's okay, okay, carry on.
Carry on.
Cllr Alan Lion - 2:41:51
Thank you, Chairman.
Cllr Chris Whitbread - 2:41:57
We then move on to Plans B and of course we have at the moment from the Poetry View of Appointments it's fine.
We have two Vice -Chairman nominees, Councillor Dadd and Councillor Kaufman.
I thought the LRE were going to nominate a Chairman.
We have nominated a chairman already, Councillor William Calf
Cllr Louise Mead - 2:42:25
I thought he was vice chairman.
Cllr Chris Whitbread - 2:42:34
So are we saying will should be for chairman on plans be rather than as vice chairman?
That's in writing to myself.
He has, yes.
Cllr Louise Mead - 2:42:49
Cllr Chris Whitbread - 2:42:52
Chairman, that's been agreed in writing, so we need to have an election for the chairman
of that committee. So it's Councillor Will Kaufman or Councillor Jamie McIvor.
Councillor Owen, did you want to say something? Councillor Morgan, you wanted to come in.
Cllr Alan Lion - 2:43:08
Cllr Lisa Morgan - 2:43:12
I'm happy to give up my place on Plan B for Councillor Owen if he requires it so that
He has got a position on one of the committees.
Cllr Alan Lion - 2:43:23
Cllr Chris Whitbread - 2:43:33
We need to move to a vote for the chairman of Plan B.
Either Will Kaufman or Councillor MacGyver.
Cllr Alan Lion - 2:43:44
OK, so all those in favour of Councillor MacGyver as Chairman of Plans B?
OK, all those against?
I've got 16 in favour of Councillor McIver. I've got 25 against and there must be a few
Gary Woodhall - 2:44:22
abstentions and the second nomination is Councillor Kaufman all those in favour
of Councillor Kaufman
Cllr Alan Lion - 2:44:31
30 chairman all those against
Cllr Alan Lion - 2:44:52
14 chairman. Are there any abstentions? Okay so it looks like Councillor Kaufman has got
Cllr Alan Lion - 2:45:09
the chairmanship. Thank you. Councillor Whitby. Thank you. Then we finally go to the standards
Cllr Chris Whitbread - 2:45:16
Committee and there is just one outstanding nomination from the LRA.
We have Richard Cohen, Councillor Richard Cohen for standards please.
Cllr Louise Mead - 2:45:33
Thank you so that could be agreed, Chairman.
Cllr Chris Whitbread - 2:45:37
We then move on to outside bodies.
I did confirm some updated conservative nominations.
Yes, I didn't get a chance to update the forms.
Gary Woodhall - 2:45:56
I mean, it is as it is at the moment.
Knowing that other than the leaders' appointments on this
Cllr Chris Whitbread - 2:46:04
are essential, are the essential ones.
Should we hold over, give members more time,
especially since we have quite a few newer members,
to look over these outside bodies so we can do them
more accurately, because there are none that are actually
pressing for immediate action, is that correct,
Councillor O 'Donnell?
There is one outside body which is a leader appointment,
Gary Woodhall - 2:46:25
and I think it is, its acronym is PATROL,
I can't remember what its full name is,
but they do have an important meeting at the end of June
and they have already been hassling me
about who our nomination is for that.
But that is a leader appointment.
So that is something Chairman that the leader can do
in the next week or so and let me know
and then I will pass the information through.
Cllr Alan Lion - 2:46:50
Councillor Whitbread with respect,
Cllr Rose Brookes - 2:46:54
because we haven't had a meeting since February
of the Leisure Contract Board,
Would it be possible perhaps, we usually have one towards the end of July and our next meeting
isn't until the 22nd of the full Council I think, 22nd or so.
Is it possible to vote that?
Thank you.
Thank you.
Cllr Chris Whitbread - 2:47:17
I am happy to take any of the committees such as the liaison committee.
I am just thinking to go through each of the individual ones at the moment could take us
all night and I think members probably need some more time to go through them
to make sure the right people are down in the right places but I'm quite happy
for us to deal with the Leisure Management Contract Board which is
actually has six places on it and we've only got four people down for it
currently so there's two spaces left on there but we could agree those four for
evening and come back on the other two? I think it was an omission.
Cllr Alan Lion - 2:48:03
Cllr Jon Whitehouse - 2:48:09
I mean there were two points I was going to make. The first point is at some point someone
did say it was quite important to appoint the Essex Police foreign crime panel because
of forthcoming appointment and Councillor Shrief has offered to withdraw her nomination
for that and I don't really see why we can't agree the unopposed nominations
tonight and then come back just for the ones which need filling. Right I'm sure
Cllr Chris Whitbread - 2:48:35
we can do that that's a good point and if we if there are unchallenged
nominations we can agree them. The members appointments are standard
leaders appointments which are
normally either officers or members who are cabinet members taking on roles so
that goes without saying the leisure management contract monitoring board is
like lacking two people but I understand Councillor Brooks should be on there so
we could add Councillor Brooks to that one and agree that this evening. I've got a
Cllr Stephen Murray - 2:49:11
number of hands up. Councillor Murray. Can I just be reminded then which council
meeting these would come to and then I want to make the point I want to make.
Cllr Alan Lion - 2:49:22
Presumably they'll come to the next meeting. Presumably the next one in July.
Gary Woodhall - 2:49:26
Cllr Alan Lion - 2:49:30
Okay was there any other? My point would be then that I don't think we should
Cllr Stephen Murray - 2:49:34
delay these. I think they can actually be dealt with quite quickly unless people
are going to be asking for recorded votes. I'm not hankering after the old
days where we were regularly here till midnight. I think we will deal with these quite quickly.
We've got no idea which ones that these are going to meet before July. So I personally
feel that we should appoint and I think it can be dealt with quite quickly. And certainly,
and it is special pleading, but I know there's a meeting. So I would like item 12 dealt with
the Road in Valley Meadows, local nature reserve. I would like that dealt with before there's
a management meeting before the next council and there's also the 40th anniversary event.
So I certainly want number 12 personally dealt with tonight and I actually personally feel
we could deal with all of them tonight unless we're going to have recorded votes and then
that's a different matter.
Cllr Chris Whitbread - 2:50:29
Let's try and wiz through them and see how far we can get.
with Councillor Murray's confidence that we'll do these without too much aggravation.
So the first one I've got, which is blank, completely...
Sorry, Councillor Whitby, kettle of whisky has been wasted.
Can we just clarify, Councillor Brooks, for the leisure management board?
Cllr Graham Wiskin - 2:50:51
Thank you.
Okay, sorry.
Cllr Chris Whitbread - 2:50:57
Right, so the first one we've got is the Epping Forest Citizens Advice Bureau.
This is where I did speak to Councillor Woodle earlier, because we had previous nominations
on this that they seem to have disappeared, so including one voting member.
There's three members including one voting member.
There was members last year and they seem to have not transferred over.
Gary Woodhall - 2:51:24
I can pull up last year's minutes and tell you what was agreed at this time last year.
While we are waiting, Councillor MacGowan, did you want to?
Mr Chairman, it was just in relation to this point, I am very happy to continue to serve
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 2:51:47
on the board very much enjoyed working with Citizens Advice and promoting them. I'm very
happy to continue if there is nobody else that has been nominated and I also really
encourage all new members to attend the briefing event that I'm currently organising for new
members about Citizens Advice. Thank you.
Okay, so Chairman, the nominations to the Epping Forest Citizens Advice Bureau, three
Gary Woodhall - 2:52:08
including one voting member from last year was Councillor Heather voting plus Councillor
Councillor Malcolm and Jamie McIver.
If we go with Councillor Hever as a non -voting member.
Cllr Chris Whitbread - 2:52:24
okay so if we can come back on this one but councilman Guyver wants his name to
be listed on there
campaign to protect rural England we've got two nominations at the
time Councillor Tom Bromwich and Councillor Sharif one one is the voting
member one would be the deputy not sure how often this actually meets to be
honest with you last year it was Councillor Matthews as the voting member
Gary Woodhall - 2:53:07
and Councillors Bedford and Bromwich as deputies I think we're yeah if we can
Cllr Chris Whitbread - 2:53:23
put down Councillor Hollywood bread as one of the deputies as well. There are just so
many spaces on this list. We then get to the Epping Forest Community Transport trustees.
I believe that's Councillor Bassett. Chairman of the board.
So the Epping Forest Community Transport Board of Trustees, which one person, it's been
Councillor Bassett I think for a number of years and he is chairman of the board
so it's quite important that he goes back down there. Epping Forest liaisons
that is ward specific and it says set out but there's a number of members
missing sorry local local highways panel is currently connected to Councillor
Janet Whitehouse but I should imagine like yeah that Councillor
Smooty Patel, Councillor Williamson and myself as well.
Then if we move down that sheet, the Epping Forest local liaisons, if we agree what we
have already down, I think we'll need to come back for vacant spaces at the next four council.
Councillor?
6 is the Epping Forest Fire and Crime.
That's as noted there.
Councillor McCann plus Councillor Shrief as Deputy.
Grange Farm Managing Trustees.
Now I note the terms of the three people down there go up until the 31st of the 5th, 27th.
Councillor Murray, I know you want to mention this.
Councillor Murray.
Cllr Stephen Murray - 2:55:17
I absolutely respect the right to keep to the end of the term, but the balance has now
changed.
Three of our, two of our out of the three trustees that were appointed by the Council
are no longer elected members of the Council.
I'm not saying that they haven't got skills and a contribution to make.
I was quite happy when there was one previous councillor and two elected current councillors.
I personally feel that when we look at it again in 27, because unless they be signed,
I don't think we can replace them anyway.
And I wouldn't want to.
The balance now is wrong to have two out of the three appointees, not any longer serving
councillors.
But we're part go until next year.
Yes, thanks Chairman.
Thank you, Councillor Murray.
Cllr Chris Whitbread - 2:56:11
But what I will do is I will take it away
and speak to some of the members of the Trust
because I think you make a valid point.
Hey, Chairman, I think Councillor,
Cllr Richard Morgan - 2:56:27
or ex -Councillor Burrows has resigned from that committee.
So, best if you cheque on that.
Thank you much, sir.
Mr. Woodhill.
Cllr Alan Lion - 2:56:41
Gary Woodhall - 2:56:45
I spoke to the secretary of the board of the trustees last week, didn't let me know about
any resignation, but it may have happened since. He had heard about Councillor Murray
putting his name forward and I did have a conversation with Councillor Murray as well
and explained to him that these were all positions up to 2027. The reason it's in brackets is
I agreed with Councillor Murray, I put it in brackets so that if there was any
any resignations everyone was aware that Councillor Murray was more than happy to
take the place of anybody who resigned before the end of their term in May 27.
Thank you very much. If we move forward can we look at what we who we had down
Cllr Alan Lion - 2:57:21
Cllr Chris Whitbread - 2:57:23
last year as the Lee Valley Regional Park? Last year we had Councillor Bassett,
Gary Woodhall - 2:57:30
Councillor Heather and Councillor Lee's deputy. Can I put those forward again for
this year because they're all relevant to the local area.
Cllr Chris Whitbread - 2:57:40
Okay we've then got the leisure centre liaison groups as set out. Can we agree
those? I think there's just one missing for Loudoun. Rose should that be you?
Cllr Rose Brookes - 2:57:56
Councillor Whitbread, certainly in Loudoun it hasn't met for some time, as in years
Cllr Chris Whitbread - 2:58:03
not months I'm sure the officers were looking to see whether or not they are
still operating as such okay we then move on to the Epping forest local
council's liaison committee we've got councillor Clive Amos down the stat and
no other names at the moment there's no restriction in numbers but perhaps we
can come back to the next full council.
Just a note, Councillor Amos for now.
We then go on to the Alcatraz North East London
Joint Health Overview and Scrutiny Committee.
I believe that was Councillor, Councillor.
the motion.
Then we'll support this stuff.
Like I said, the broken valley is the local nature zone.
That's set up, we'll take that to 10 degrees.
The actual status of that is for the Solstice Committee
and the white down there, which is there,
I think, totally agreed that's 14.
The town's had partnerships, I mean,
we're going through a complete change in those
So that's probably irrelevant.
Fountry action up in Forest.
Fountry action up in Forest.
I've got Councillor Morris and Councillor Bassett down.
Okay.
That's fine.
So Councillor Morris will take that place.
On 14, I think I'm still on it.
Yes.
Cllr Richard Morgan - 2:59:39
I've got a meeting in two weeks time anyway.
Yes, you're there.
Okay, thank you.
Cllr Chris Whitbread - 2:59:48
Royal Gunpowder Mills is Jeannie Lee if we can take that as being agreed.
The leisure contract management contract we've got to add Rose Brooks
into there but we're still short of another one.
Cllr Jon Whitehouse - 3:00:09
Councillor George is willing to take up that position and while I'm
she's going to step back from the Epping for Ice College nomination. Thank you. So
Cllr Chris Whitbread - 3:00:22
that makes those numbers rounded up and item 19 there is no longer a
need for a vote on. Now the item 20 is the EFDC Armed Forces champion. We've got
Councillor Murray down but that should also have Councillor Lee alongside
Councillor Murray, if that can be agreed. 21 Whips Cross Joint Health Ovary and
Scrutiny Committee, currently down as Councillor Amos. It was Councillor Risby
last year that one as well. Could we ask for two on that committee? It isn't our
committee, it's a as it says Whips Cross Joint Health Ovary and Scrutiny Committee,
It's a overview and scrutiny committee that's run by,
I can't remember the top of my head,
what London borough, which cross is it?
Yeah.
Waltham Forest.
There's no reason, I mean, it'll be a public meeting.
So if Councillor Amos and Councillor Risby both went,
I'm sure they wouldn't be kicked out.
Yep. Okay.
But if we put them down as both attending,
that would be helpful.
We then go on to appointments held by officers.
As noted, they are all in regards to the positions they are taking there.
We then go to appointments held by officers, organisations carrying out the Council's regulatory
and non -executive functions, just to be agreed.
And that is the end of that list.
Thank you.
APPLAUSE.
Cllr Alan Lion - 3:02:00
World -deserved round of applause for the leader. We will go on to
item 10. Sorry, Chairman, there is one last thing we need to do on
Gary Woodhall - 3:02:11
that report and it is right at the bottom. Recommendation 7 that Ms
Leard, known as Sonia, be reappointed as a non -voting co -operative member of the
Community Spiritly Committee for the 26 -27 municipal year. Number six, the
appointments for the leader to outside organisations that can get reported at
Cllr Alan Lion - 3:02:34
the next council. Okay, so we can go on to item 10 and item 10 on our agenda is the

10 Changes to the Constitution's Scheme of Delegation affecting Planning and Building Control functions and the Epping Forest District Planning Code of Practice

changes to the Constitution scheme of delegation affecting planning and
building control functions, and the Epping Forest District
Planning Code of Practise, which can be found
on pages 39 to 128 of the agenda.
As I was chairman of the Constitution Working Group,
I will present that report.
So this report from the Constitution Working Group
is brought to the council for approval
to make specific amendments to the Constitution's
scheme of delegation and planning code of practise.
They have been reviewed with the support of the service director and the planning and
the monitoring officer.
The report summarised the proposed amendments to the scheme of delegation which would enable
improvements to the capacity effectiveness at the performance, performing the quality
review of planning applications before decisions are made or referred to planning committees.
is decisions relating to the tree functions
to move to the service director for regulatory services
where a number of tree staff were relocated in 2025
to improve service resilience.
Decisions which relate to the distinctive
building control regime to be made
by registered building inspectors
to ensure the council is compliant with the law.
This is a legal requirement
and the requirements of independent building safety regulator,
which is some new legislation.
The design of processing and the systems to validate,
charge, collect and recover building safety levy
and community infrastructure levy.
In addition, the council is recommended to approve
a refreshed planning code of practise,
which applies to both officers and members.
This would update the existing code which dates back to 2017
and ensures the responsibilities and functions
of the local planning authority are conducted in ways
that are open, transparent, effective, and in accordance
with the up -to -date best practise
for the local government association.
So members, that report is before you.
Are there any questions?
Councillor Whitehouse.
Thank you, Chairman.
One question and one point.
Cllr Jon Whitehouse - 3:05:16
The point is there is a reference in the covering report to the Planning Services Review which
does seem to be driven more by the Government's timetable about when it's implementing its
changes than the Council's changes in terms of what it should do for the best management
of its committees.
And whilst there's some delegation stuff that may need to wait for the government's review,
other stuff brought up in the past review when they came back to evaluate the implementation
of their bits, I really don't see the need to wait until whenever to get on with that.
And I would encourage the constitution working group or place scrutiny or whoever just to
get on and look at what changes are needed.
My question, I did raise it earlier, but unfortunately we didn't have a planning person there.
On page 64, if I understand it to mean that tree preservation orders that involve felling
can't be referred to committee, but other lesser tree matters can be referred to committee,
and that sounds to me like it's the wrong way round, and the more serious applications
for felling should be the ones which are able to be referred to committee.
I just wondered if you could get some clarification on that and if necessary just change that
round.
Right, we have Mr Wilslow on the line.
Cllr Alan Lion - 3:06:37
Did you get that point and are you able to respond?
Yes, Chair, I did.
Matt Winslow - 3:06:45
In respect to this doesn't change anything in terms of what can or cannot be referred
to committee.
this just moves the delegations that currently rest with me to a different director.
So anything that could come to committee before can still come to committee.
It's just moving the point of primary delegation holder.
Thank you. I got that point. That's a slightly different question.
Cllr Jon Whitehouse - 3:07:15
The question I asked is what's not changing?
Are we in the position which I think we didn't realise we were previously?
because we've definitely considered felling of trees
at planning committees in the past.
But am I right to interpret page 64 in that way
or have I misinterpreted it?
Matt Winslow - 3:07:34
It's not my understanding to interpret it
in the way that you have, respectively.
There is, there's nothing in the shift of the delegation
which is moving it out of moving anything out of a committee decision
where committee decisions would otherwise be made.
Yeah I think the point is that the two decisions are reversed so that the
Cllr Alan Lion - 3:08:03
higher level tree felling is not a committee decision. I think that's right
isn't it? That's what I read it to me but if someone's telling me that that's not
what it says.
Cllr Jon Whitehouse - 3:08:16
I'd be helpful to understand why.
I think we're not going to be able to resolve it tonight,
I don't think.
Cllr Alan Lion - 3:08:22
My suggestion is we take it back to the Constitution Working
Group, because this is a working document.
It's still, there are other changes that need to be made.
And this is really to get the necessary legislation through.
So the code of practise and the building control information.
and I would suggest that it's taken back to the Constitution Working Group at the next
meeting and this is raised as an important point to be considered.
Murray and then Chairman McIver.
Okay so we have Councillor Murray.
Chairman, planning is a really important issue.
Cllr Stephen Murray - 3:09:00
I try and be on top of as much as I can but as an individual I can't be on top of everything
and one thing I'm not on top of is the rules and regulations governing planning and building
control. So can I just hear from my colleagues who serve on planning
committees are they happy with these changes and this report because I would
like just some assurance the officer is kind of reassured me because I think he
if I understood what he said the delegation to officers from members
hasn't changed but I would like to hear from someone who serves on the planning
committee and has a great deal more knowledge of planning than I do that
they are happy with these proposals. Councillor Williamson. Thank you chair
Cllr Ken Williamson - 3:09:49
congratulations to both of you. Yes I'm very happy with the changes and I was
going to stand before you ask the question to thank both of our director
or service director of planning and the monitoring officer for all the work
they put into this. Matt Winslow came in here and he's changed a breath of fresh air. He's
been through every policy and I'm very happy to endorse this. Thank you.
Councillor Dead. Thank you, Mr Chairman. On the Constitution
Cllr Mary Dadd - 3:10:26
working group, I did raise a few more points which are coming back to the Constitution
Working Group, Councillor Murray, and I think we were actually looking at clarifying a few
things including what happens in appeals, which of course is changing from government
perspective. So there are a few more amendments that will be coming forward and it will be
looked at at the next Constitution Working Group.
Councillor Gough.
Thank you, Mr Chairman. Just briefly, can I just ask two questions? Firstly, is this
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 3:11:00
is a result of a change in statute and statute law and therefore we don't have a choice or
is it based on advice? I think they're two very separate things and can often be slightly
confused. The second question I just wanted to ask is there is a very big difference between
delegation and oversight. I would like these matters to have complete oversight of the
planning department. I think they are planning issues but I understand why you'd want to
engage other officers and have their oversight with the matter. I'm not comfortable with
it completely leaving the planning department, but if it's a case of collaborative working
that's different and perhaps this is a place where the constitution working group needs
to get to. So my two questions to Mr Winslow is first of all is it a change of statute
and therefore we have no choice or is it just advice because we saw last time we got advice
the people out there really didn't like it and the second question is in relation to
the actual corporate handling of this change will it still fundamentally sit within the
planning department or will it be completely out of the planning department because that
Cllr Alan Lion - 3:12:02
would concern me. Thank you. Mr Wieser. Thank you chair. So in respect there's obviously a few
Matt Winslow - 3:12:06
changes that are proposed as part of this report and in respect to the scheme of delegation
the first change which is seeking the ability of different officers or a greater range of officers
to sign off applications before they come to committee or before decisions are made on their
own, that's advice, that's within our gift to do, there's nobody forcing us to do that.
In respect of building control, that is legislation, legislation came in a few years ago
which changed how building control worked and that was following the Grenfell tragedy
and the constitution needs updating in order to reflect that.
So, that's a similar thing for building safety levy, which is also a product of that legislation.
So that is influenced by statutes.
In terms of the shift of functions from myself to the service director for regulatory services
which relate to trees, that's not related to any statutory change.
That's operational change that's already been put into effect.
Those team members have already moved from one directorate to another.
There's no change in the delivery of the council services of those.
But that change really is the final piece that needs to happen before we can to ensure
that decision making sits with the right director that has the management and control of those
functions.
In respect of the planning code of practise, it's good practise in terms of its status.
There are a number of legislative updates and changes to national planning policy framework
that have happened since 2017 when the last code of practise was approved by the Council
and therefore it is in order to try to ensure that the practise guidance within the constitution
relates to that.
Thank you.
Councillor McIvor.
Thank you, Mr Chairman.
Given that the Constitution Working Group will have now changed to reflect that of the
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 3:14:18
will of the people based on the election results and that most of this is advice and not statute,
may I suggest that the legislative changes that have to be made as per statute law we
obviously honour, we don't have a choice from what Mr Winslow is saying, but all of the
advice and ultimately what's the gift for us to give we should send back to the Constitution
working group for more updated view on what our residents would ultimately like
us to do. Thank you.
Cllr Alan Lion - 3:14:48
Thank you Chairman. Perhaps I can actually clarify a few things. Some of the
Cllr Mary Dadd - 3:14:51
legislation coming down the line we are going with that is the advice and
therefore we're going with that as opposed to doing our own separate advice
and I think that that is is something that is has got to happen and we don't
want to be behind the curve if you like when it does come into legislation which is going
to be very soon. And certainly we will look at anything that has been queried by anybody.
And to clarify things, with the trees in the situation, the planning application still applies
and it's still going to be looked at in planning applications. Even though the trees people now,
instead of sitting some of them in planning and signing with the tree department, they're all
together they will still be doing the advice and the recommendations so I hope
that answers your questions and if not I can answer some more possibly. Thank you.
Cllr Alan Lion - 3:15:48
Thank you chair and congrats to you both on your election vice chair and chair of
Cllr James Abbott - 3:15:56
the council. I just have two concerns to highlight with the planning code of
conduct so code of practise specifically two of the recommendations within the
report which discourages members from discussing planning applications that are happening within
their own wards. So preventing any sort of meaningful advocacy on part of their residents
even in a formal setting. But also that we're not encouraged to speak directly with developers
to highlight those concerns. I was just wondering what assurances can you give to my residents
of Wollamabity concerned about development that this is just a means to further centralise
powers away from councillors and residents and reduce meaningful
advocacy on their behalf. Thank you.
Cllr Alan Lion - 3:16:45
Cllr Mary Dadd - 3:16:48
Thank you. If I can answer that. One of the things that has changed in the last
couple of years, as you probably know, if you go into a planning committee and
you're making a decision you can't go in predetermined. That has actually
constrained you in talking to and taking forward the wishes of your residents
and also working with any developers.
And it's very important that you do actually talk to them about any applications that come
forward.
And the most changes come before it comes to a formal application.
And it's easier then.
And then the changes we've had in the last couple of years is that ward councillors can
put their presentation to the committee, but they cannot vote.
that actually frees them up to be able to discuss things with their residents.
What the Code of Practise is trying to do, and it still needs some amendments, is the
Code of Practise is trying to protect a councillor from being misrepresented by unscrupulous
developers. In most cases that won't be the case and therefore there is a code that suggests
that there's various different ways that you can actually have somebody there who basically
means that you're not taken out of context. So it's not to take away local democracy,
it's actually making local democracy work quite well. And also, as we know, applications,
once they come to committee, the developers had a lot of expense in doing their various
reports etc and they're less likely to want to change things whereas a
counsellor working in their ward can tweak it to the just a little bit before
it goes into into a committee if it's an allocated site that is best way and also
the other changes are that we are encouraged to speak to the planning
officer before so that we can see what the concerns are and they can act so you
have a much better local democracy, if you like,
on planning issues.
Mr. Gavrielo.
Thank you.
It also protects members from accusations of
Cllr Alan Lion - 3:19:01
predetermination by developers and by applicants.
So I think we need to be very cautious on how we take these
things forward and treat it seriously,
because all the planning meetings are online
and are visible.
So I think it's in our interest to make sure this is in place.
So members, Councillor Bromwich.
Cllr Tom Bromwich - 3:19:30
Thank you, Chair. I think that just all demonstrates what a superb authority,
Councillor Dadd is on all of these issues.
And I've been very happy to be on planning committees with you.
Just on point 2 .3 E, clarifying how members should not lobby fellow members,
nor attempt to persuade them to vote a particular way.
So whenever there's a planning application in Northwell Bassett, I make every effort
to come along to that and to speak.
Obviously when I'm sat on that side speaking to the voting members and I'm saying what
I think about this application, surely that would be classified as lobbying and trying
to persuade.
So it seems like there's a little bit of either there needs to be a tighter definition about
what lobbying entails or we need to get rid of that.
Because whilst we are having a lot more opportunity
to speak freely, being non -voting members
speaking on issues in our own wards,
it's not entirely consistent that I can both do that,
but I'm also not allowed to try and persuade people.
It feels like what's the point of me being on that side anyway.
Thank you.
Yeah, Carrie.
Thank you, Chairman.
Cllr Mary Dadd - 3:20:38
I think I'll take that back about clarifying what lobbying means because how I've recommended
or represented lobbying is you can't go into a planning committee and of course we're all
independent, there's no party colours, and start lobbying people to support your view.
You make your case and that's the situation. You can't do it outside the meeting. As far
as lobbying is concerned, when your ward counts are doing things, what is recommended for
general public is if they want to put their case, they should do it to the case officer
and all the committee members. I think the same could apply for ward councillors so that
all the committee members and the case officer are aware of some of the issues. I think I
am correct in saying that. If Matt Winslow would like to, he is nodding. Thank you.
Councillor Bromwich.
I bet you're really regretting being made Chair now Alan.
Cllr Tom Bromwich - 3:21:39
Yes, at this time.
In that case is there a chance that we could potentially revise point E to specify no lobbying of individual members just so that there's full clarity on that point?
I've made a note about clarifying on lobbying. Thank you.
Cllr Mary Dadd - 3:21:58
I think this is an important report.
Cllr Alan Lion - 3:22:02
Can I ask members now if they are happy with the report?
Can we have a show of hands in favour?
Against?
Any abstentions?
Cllr Alan Lion - 3:22:29
Okay, so I think that was voted on and that was approved, so I think that was okay.
Mr Woodall, was that okay?
Sorry?
Okay.
All right then.
So, we are now on to item 11, exclusion of public and press.

11 Changes to the Constitution's Scheme of Delegation affecting Planning and Building Control functions and the Epping Forest District Planning Code of Practice

Item 11 on our agenda, there's no items for consideration at the exclusion of public and
press.
I would like to take this opportunity to wish you a safe journey home.
And if you'd like to hang on just after we turn off the webcast announcement and I close
the meeting at 10 .24.
24.
Okay, is the webcast thing off?
Cllr James Abbott
District councillor for Waltham Abbey South and Rural ward
Reform UK
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Cllr Roger Baldwin
District councillor for Loughton Forest ward
Loughton Residents Association
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Barbara Beardwell
Monitoring Officer & Strategic Legal Advisor
Epping Forest District Council
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Cllr Nigel Bedford
District councillor for North Weald Bassett ward
Conservative Party
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Cllr Tom Bromwich
District councillor for North Weald Bassett ward
Epping Forest Independents Group
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Cllr Rose Brookes
District councillor for Buckhurst Hill East and Whitebridge ward
Loughton Residents Association
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Cllr Barbara Cohen
District councillor for Buckhurst Hill East and Whitebridge ward
Loughton Residents Association
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Cllr Richard Cohen
District councillor for Loughton Forest ward
Loughton Residents Association
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Cllr Mary Dadd
District councillor for Ongar ward
Conservative Party
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Cllr Mandy George
District councillor for Epping West and Rural ward
Liberal Democrats
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Cllr Howard Kauffman
District councillor for Loughton St John's ward
Loughton Residents Association
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Cllr Jeane Lea
District councillor for Waltham Abbey North ward
Conservative Party
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Cllr Alan Lion
District councillor for Grange Hill ward
Conservative Party
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Cllr Jodie Lucas
District councillor for Waltham Abbey West ward
Conservative Party
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Cllr Craig McCann
District councillor for Chigwell with Lambourne ward
Conservative Party
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Cllr Jaymey McIvor
District councillor for Ongar ward
Reform UK
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Cllr Karen McIvor
District councillor for Rural East ward
Reform UK
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Cllr Louise Mead
District councillor for Loughton Fairmead ward
Loughton Residents Association
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Cllr Lisa Morgan
District councillor for Grange Hill ward
Epping Forest Independents Group
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Cllr Richard Morgan
District councillor for Rural East ward
Conservative Party
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Cllr Stephen Murray
District councillor for Loughton Roding ward
Independent
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Cllr Chidi Nweke
District councillor for Loughton Roding ward
Loughton Residents Association
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Cllr Annie May O'Neill
District councillor for Ongar ward
Reform UK
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Cllr Michael Owen
District councillor for Loughton Forest ward
Loughton Residents Association
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Cllr Smruti Patel
District councillor for Buckhurst Hill West ward
Conservative Party
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Cllr Sheree Rackham
District councillor for Loughton Roding ward
Loughton Residents Association
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Cllr Geoff Shaw
District councillor for Theydon Bois with Passingford ward
Reform UK
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Andrew Small
Chief Executive
Epping Forest District Council
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Cllr Darshan Sunger
District councillor for Chigwell with Lambourne ward
Conservative Party
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Cllr Chris Whitbread
District councillor for Roydon and Lower Nazeing ward
Conservative Party
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Cllr Holly Whitbread
District councillor for Epping West and Rural ward
Conservative Party
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Cllr Janet Whitehouse
District councillor for Epping East ward
Liberal Democrats
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Cllr Jon Whitehouse
District councillor for Epping East ward
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Cllr Ken Williamson
District councillor for Buckhurst Hill West ward
Conservative Party
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Matt Winslow
Planning Director
Epping Forest District Council
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Cllr Graham Wiskin
District councillor for Loughton St John's ward
Loughton Residents Association
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Gary Woodhall
Team Manager - Democratic and Electoral Services
Epping Forest District Council
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