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Overview & Scrutiny Committee
Tuesday, 8th September 2026 at 7:00pm

 
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  1. Cllr Jaymey McIvor
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  1. Laura Kirman
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  1. Cllr Louise Mead
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  1. Cllr Rose Brookes
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  3. Laura Kirman
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  1. Public Speaker
  2. Cllr Jaymey McIvor
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  1. James Warwick
  2. Volountary Action Epping Forest
  3. Jacqui Foile
  4. Jacqui Foile (VAEF)
  5. Jacqui Foile (VAEF)
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  1. Cllr Jaymey McIvor
  2. Cllr Jaymey McIvor
  3. Cllr Clive Amos
  4. Jacqui Foile (VAEF)
  5. Cllr Jaymey McIvor
  6. Cllr Mandy George
  7. Jacqui Foile (VAEF)
  8. Cllr Jaymey McIvor
  9. Cllr Jodie Lucas
  10. Jacqui Foile (VAEF)
  11. Cllr Louise Mead
  12. Jacqui Foile (VAEF)
  13. Cllr Jaymey McIvor
  14. Cllr Graham Wiskin
  15. Cllr Jaymey McIvor
  16. Jacqui Foile (VAEF)
  17. Cllr Jaymey McIvor
  18. Cllr Karen McIvor
  19. Jacqui Foile (VAEF)
  20. Cllr Jaymey McIvor
  21. Cllr Jaymey McIvor
  22. Jacqui Foile (VAEF)
  23. Cllr Jaymey McIvor
  24. Cllr Rose Brookes
  25. Jacqui Foile (VAEF)
  26. Voluntary Action Epping Forest
  27. Cllr Jaymey McIvor
  28. Cllr Holly Whitbread
  29. Jacqui Foile (VAEF)
  30. Cllr Darshan Sunger
  31. Jacqui Foile (VAEF)
  32. Cllr Jaymey McIvor
  33. Jacqui Foile (VAEF)
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  7. Paula Maginnis
  8. Cllr Jaymey McIvor
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  11. Jennifer Gould
  12. Cllr Jaymey McIvor
  13. Cllr Jeane Lea
  14. Jennifer Gould
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  16. Cllr Smruti Patel
  17. Cllr Jaymey McIvor
  18. Cllr Louise Mead
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  20. Jennifer Gould
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  22. Jennifer Gould
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  24. Cllr Craig McCann
  25. Cllr Jaymey McIvor
  26. Cllr Rose Brookes
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  28. Jennifer Gould
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  30. Cllr Graham Wiskin
  31. Mandy Thompson
  32. Cllr Jaymey McIvor
  33. Cllr Martin Morris
  34. Cllr Jaymey McIvor
  35. Owen Sparks
  36. Cllr Jaymey McIvor
  37. Cllr Jodie Lucas
  38. Cllr Jaymey McIvor
  39. Owen Sparks
  40. Cllr Jaymey McIvor
  41. Paula Maginnis
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  1. Cllr Holly Whitbread
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  5. Cllr Stephen Murray
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  13. Cllr Mandy George
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  20. Owen Sparks
  21. Cllr Jaymey McIvor
  22. Owen Sparks
  23. Cllr Jaymey McIvor
  24. Cllr Graham Wiskin
  25. Cllr Jaymey McIvor
  26. Owen Sparks
  27. Cllr Jaymey McIvor
  28. Cllr Martin Morris
  29. Cllr Jaymey McIvor
  30. Owen Sparks
  31. Cllr Jaymey McIvor
  32. Cllr Mary Dadd
  33. Cllr Jaymey McIvor
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  6. Cllr Mary Dadd
  7. Cllr Jaymey McIvor
  8. Cllr Graham Wiskin
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  10. Cllr Geoff Shaw
  11. Jennifer Gould
  12. Nicola Sayers
  13. Cllr Jaymey McIvor
  14. Nicola Sayers
  15. Cllr Geoff Shaw
  16. Nicola Sayers
  17. Cllr Jaymey McIvor
  18. Cllr Geoff Shaw
  19. Nicola Sayers
  20. Cllr Jaymey McIvor
  21. Laura Kirman
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  23. Cllr Geoff Shaw
  24. Nicola Sayers
  25. Cllr Jaymey McIvor
  26. Cllr Geoff Shaw
  27. Cllr Jaymey McIvor
  28. Cllr Geoff Shaw
  29. Cllr Jaymey McIvor
  30. Cllr Chris Whitbread
  31. Cllr Jaymey McIvor
  32. Laura Kirman
  33. Cllr Jaymey McIvor
  34. Cllr Geoff Shaw
  35. Cllr Jaymey McIvor
  36. Cllr Geoff Shaw
  37. Cllr Jaymey McIvor
  38. Laura Kirman
  39. Cllr Jaymey McIvor
  40. Cllr Stephen Murray
  41. Jennifer Gould
  42. Cllr Jaymey McIvor
  43. Cllr Jodie Lucas
  44. Cllr Jaymey McIvor
  45. Cllr Geoff Shaw
  46. Cllr Jaymey McIvor
  47. Cllr Geoff Shaw
  48. Cllr Jaymey McIvor
  49. Jennifer Gould
  50. Cllr Geoff Shaw
  51. Jennifer Gould
  52. Cllr Jaymey McIvor
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  1. Webcast Finished

1 Webcasting Introduction

Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 0:00:00
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 0:00:01
the webcasting introduction, I would like to remind everyone that this meeting will
be filmed live or recorded and uploaded to the internet and will be capable of repeated
viewing. Therefore, by participating in this meeting, you are consenting to being filmed
and to the possible use of those images and sound recordings. Members are reminded to
turn on their microphones before speaking and turn them off when they have finished.
Good evening everybody and welcome again. First of all, I would just like to start the
meeting by just mentioning that today marks the fourth anniversary of the passing of Her
Late Majesty the Queen. I'm sure I can speak on behalf of the whole committee that our
thoughts and prayers are with the King and the Royal Family at this sad anniversary.
But welcome to this evening's Ovi and Scrutiny meeting and I'm Councillor Jamie McIver, the
Chairman and to my right is Vice -Chairman, Councillor Craig McCann. To my left we have
Jen Gould, Deputy Chief Executive, Owen Sparks, Head of Finance and our Section 151 Officer,
and Nicholas Sayers, who is Head of Legal and Deputy Monitoring Officer.
Good evening to you all.
And to my right also is Laura Kerman from Democratic Services and Matt Picking, who
is webcasting our meeting.
We also have a number of officers also in the Chamber and online should we require them,
and thank you to all of you that are here in person.
So apologies for absence.
Do we have any apologies?

2 APOLOGIES FOR ABSENCE

We've received apologies for absence from Councillor Bassett, Councillor Parsons and
Laura Kirman - 0:01:34
Councillor Sharif and Councillor Amos is substituting for Councillor Sharif when he arrives.
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 0:01:43
Thank you. My next question was any substitutes, so just the one. Thank you. Members, do we

3 SUBSTITUTE MEMBERS

4 DECLARATIONS OF INTEREST

have any declarations of interest? No? Councillor Meade?
Cllr Louise Mead - 0:01:51
I just want to note that I know the presenter, Jackie, for the AEF.
So it's a non -Pecuniary interest, but I wanted to state that.
Thank you, Councillor Meade.
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 0:02:01
Members, throughout the meeting, if at any point you suddenly realise you have a declaration of interest,
just get my attention and you can make it known.

5 MINUTES

Item 5 is the minutes. These can be found on pages 5 to 9 on your Agenda pack.
Can we confirm the minutes from our meeting on the 9th of June are correct?
Is that agreed? Oh sorry, Councillor Brooks.
Cllr Rose Brookes - 0:02:25
I'm aware I'm not a committee, it was just perhaps a typo, but my memory is the evening
went on longer than 8 .50. My memory also would agree with you actually.
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 0:02:34
We'll get that looked into, I'm sure the webcast can clarify it.
Laura? I'll cheque my 24 hour clock, Councillor Brooks.
Laura Kirman - 0:02:42
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 0:02:44
I think that previous meeting finished in the early hours of the morning, from my recollection.
Thank you members. Any other comments on the minutes? Okay we'll move on to item
six which is matters arising and outstanding actions. Oh Councillor Murray
my apologies. Oh you're on mute Councillor Murray.
I just wanted to say we're declaring an interest on the basis of no one's record and I've known
Jackie over many years and worked on many projects with her so I declare the same interest.
Thank you Councillor Murray that is noted. Good evening Councillor Amos.
I have nothing to declare.
I was going to let you take your seat first, but you've been extra efficient.
Thank you.
Members, we'll move on to item 6, which is any matters arising and outstanding actions.

6 Matters Arising and Outstanding Actions

Members, is there any other matters arising or outstanding actions you wish to discuss
at this moment in the meeting?
No?
Okay, we'll move on.

7 Public Questions & Requests to Address the Overview and Scrutiny Committee

So item 7 is public questions and requests to address the overview and scrutiny committee.
There was a request from Selina Jeffcoat to ask a question tonight, however this was past
the deadline for questions but there is still an option available for you to address the
committee.
Selina, you do have three minutes to address the committee, may I just point out that it's
not a question as requested, it is an opportunity to address the committee.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Public Speaker - 0:04:25
I'm speaking on item 12 and I'm requesting an expanded scrutiny of QALIS within the work
plan for the following reasons.
QALYST owes Epping Forest around £88 million.
Last financial year, the council's estimate
of possible losses on those loans, what is probably not
going to be repaid, rose from £5 million to £26 .5 million.
Despite these forecast losses last year,
Epping borrowed another £10 .55 million
from the Public Works Loan Board and lent it all to QALYST
to develop Springwood Grove.
Members have repeatedly been reassured that QALYST loans
are secured.
It should be clear project by project exactly what assets secure these loans and whether they really cover the debt.
In January this year, Qolis' auditors needed a letter of support committing Epping to providing enough financial support to ensure Qolis and its subsidiaries
remained going concerns for the following 12 months. Epping provided that letter.
That is a major financial commitment by this council and members need a clear understanding of why it was necessary,
how much you're liable for, the decision -making process, and if you'll
need to do the same again next year. Then there's the cash flow for loan
repayments, often Epping borrowed up to 10 years, while the same loans to Qalis
for up to 30 years. It needs to be clear to members how and when the council will
pay back the capital before you know when or if council will be able to pay
back theirs. Cottis Lane shows why this matters. In March 2025, around 19 .4
million was taken off Qalis's outstanding loans when Epping took back
the car park. But Epping's own debt did not disappear. Cottice Lane value was
immediately written down to 3 .9 million. Epping had debts from Cottice of circa
9 million to service and pay off and there's a shortfall in revenue of almost
1 million a year to cover. That's why Springwood Grove purchase needs to be
paused while it's considered properly. Springwood Grove was hailed as the big
moneymaker for Qualis, how it pay back its debts. Instead the council is
planning to pay Qualis 19 .65 million for the site. Everyone
supports affordable housing but Epping already owns the development via
Qualis, has already financed the development and is now proposing to buy
it back. It should not have to pay many millions of public money for a
development it already owns, has borrowed substantially to fund and has paid for.
This committee should see the whole financial picture for this and every
Qualis project. The total cost of the council, not just the sale price but how
much Epping has had to borrow, what's it actually worth, how much
Qualis's debt is paid off and how much is still left to pay. This committee
should also compare buying Springwood Grove back with calling in loans so members can
see which best protects public money. Too much of Qolis financing has gone behind closed
doors. Too much good money is going after bad. That cannot be in the public interest.
I ask you to add a project by project of actual cost, actual borrowing, actual return and
risk to the Council for all Qolis projects, past and present to the work programme. There
needs to be a detailed assessment of the Council's financial exposure to Qolis and all proposed
disposals need to be properly and independently risk and value assessed
beforehand. With exposure of this scale scrutiny needs to happen before another
loss is crystallised not afterwards. Thank you just on time thank you very
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 0:07:33
much thank you for coming this evening. Members would anyone like to ask a question? If not we will move on. I will just inform members that there will be a moment in the
meeting for us to address any matters that have been raised under a different
part of the agenda when we discuss our work programme.
But for now I'd like to thank you, Ms. Jeffcote,
for coming to our meeting this evening.
And if you wouldn't mind turning your microphone off.
Thank you.
Turn my microphone off, I wasn't meant to do that.
Right, item eight is executive decisions and call -in.

8 Executive Decisions - Call-In

I believe there are no decisions that have been called in,
so we will move on to the next item on the agenda,
which is item nine.

9 Voluntary Action Epping Forest Update on EFDC Funding

I'm very pleased to say that this evening
we have a presentation from Voluntary Action Epping Forest
to update on our EFDC funding.
This is on pages 12 to 17 on your agenda.
I'd like to welcome Jackie, the Chief Officer,
and Hugh, who is a trustee of Voluntary Action Epping Forest.
James Warwick will introduce and then head over
to Voluntary Action Epping Forest.
So I'll hand over to you, Mr. Warwick.
Thank you.
James Warwick - 0:08:43
The overview report that you have in front of you provides the update on how Von Schoecht
and Eppen Forest have utilised the intent to use funding by EFDC.
It gives an overview from the covering report, gives an overview from an EFDC point of view
of the service level agreement between the EFDC and VAEF, how that is monitored, and
James Carstairs, who's the EFDC officer, liaises regularly with VAEF and receives regular updates
and monitors the requirements of the service level agreement.
And I now hand over to Jackie, who will provide presentation.
Thank you.
Thank you, Chair.
Thank you, James.
Volountary Action Epping Forest - 0:09:37
So good evening, everyone.
Many thanks for inviting me to the meeting this evening.
As you know, my name is Jackie Foyle.
I'm the Chief Officer at Voluntary Action, Epping Forest.
And also here with me this evening is Hugh Bernard, who is a member of the VAF Trustee
Board.
VAF was established back in 1993, further to an EFDC officer who I think some of you
may even remember, a gentleman called Chris Overand. Chris worked with a number of local
voluntary groups who wanted an umbrella support organisation in the district. So we are very
Jacqui Foile - 0:10:22
grateful that Eppin Forest District Council funded that and indeed have been funding our
organisation since that time.
Jacqui Foile (VAEF) - 0:10:31
So I hope you've all had the opportunity to read my paper,
which James referred to, and you will note that I've responded to
four specific questions that were put to me by EFDC
officers in advance of this meeting.
I've also added some additional information about services we deliver
not funded by EFDC. So I felt
A good starting point this evening is to offer some clarification on the two different elements
of VAF's work. As you are no doubt aware, EFDC currently funds £30 ,000, which is approximately
one -tenth of this year's funding for VAF. We class this funding as our core and it supports
the work outlined in the EFDC Service Level Agreement, which was agreed by EFDC officers
and ourselves earlier in the year. So this funding, although classed as unrestricted,
is specifically to support delivery of the EFDC Service Level Agreement objectives and
cannot be used to deliver other VAF projects. The other element of VAF's work is to deliver
a number of direct services which are funded by alternative funders. This funding is restricted
and can only be used for the purpose it was applied for, so VAF direct services. The funding
we receive from EFDC supports a number of central functions to assist other
charities within the district. So we all know I hope the value of volunteers and
we all know that many services would not even exist without the assistance of
volunteers. Our volunteer centre helps local charities promote and recruit to
vacancies. This in turn helps them to provide valuable essential services for
the residents of Epping Forest. VAF regularly signposts potential volunteers
in the direction of the local food bank to assist with essential tasks
such as perhaps delivering a food parcel to families with children struggling
during the school holidays.
VAF also regularly points volunteers in the direction of the Epping Forest Conservation Group
who assist with keeping our beautiful forest remain beautiful, to name just a few examples.
On the other side of the coin, we help volunteers make a choice on what is right for them.
Sometimes this is easy and sometimes it's not so easy.
Some people need a little bit of extra support to take this step.
Perhaps they have been unemployed for a while, lost their confidence, are isolated, or indeed perhaps they've suffered a bereavement.
Our service is here to help them.
Volunteering can be life changing for individuals and achieving significant outcomes for them,
such as skills, experience, pathways into employment, and friendship to name a few.
Epping Forest District Council fund our volunteer centre which adds to both building the capacity
of local services and engages local people in meaningful activity. Our coordinator
is present each week in the Civic Hub here on Mondays.
But you can also reach us by phone, email or log on to Volunteering Essex,
our online portal to explore opportunities available.
We are also present in the Civic Hub each week offering a digital drop -in.
Members of the public can call in for support for all things digital
and sometimes also just to see a friendly face and have a chat. I think we
all know digital devices can be rather challenging for many members of our
communities. We break down those barriers and show people at their own speed how
to book a doctor's appointment, how to pay their electric bill, how to talk to
their son in Australia, how to save their treasure photos and many other things.
Also, many other local providers are in the Civic Hub, such as Barclays Bank, the Citizens'
Advice Service, Epping Forest District Council Housing Officers and CHESS, the homeless charity.
Whilst we are there, they often make referrals to our coordinator, which of course ultimately
supports the clients they are helping.
Again, a great service making a big difference in our district funded by Epping Forest District
Council.
EFDC funding also allows VAF to run voluntary sector forums throughout the year on topics
that are valuable and of interest to our charities and partners.
This year we will be hosting two face -to -face events on funding.
We have one coming up on the 15th of October being held in the Faden Boys Village Hall.
We have Essex Community Foundation presenting and also one of your officers, Janine, who will be presenting on the much sought after community fund.
We've also just held a digital network meeting funded by EFDC and it was attended by many partners including yourselves.
We are all trying together to achieve more services for people to prevent the digital divide.
And hopefully by working together this may help our district achieve this.
Although not funded by EFDC, we also have events planned on volunteering good practise,
winter crisis support and engagement with our health providers.
A small amount of funding has been secured by VAF from Active S6 to enable these extra
events in our district.
It's an essential role of VAF to facilitate and enable the sharing of information to the
sector and indeed other partners, including statutory.
So you may be thinking that if EFDC did not fund these services, would they still be around?
The likelihood is most that I have described would not be around.
It is incredibly hard to achieve core funding to deliver essentially infrastructure services.
We of course try, but it is very difficult and like other CVSs in Essex,
VAF is reliant on the support of its local authority.
Without the support of a local authority funding, some Essex CVSs are unfortunately no longer around, a gap in some areas I would certainly suggest.
And we certainly do not want to be in that position in Epping Forest.
Over the years we have been able to work closely with EFDC on many local and national crises.
crisis. Together both of our organisations have been significant in achieving the most
for local groups and residents. Your funding enables VAF's existence as it enables our
organisation to be the place to go as we are responsive, flexible and always relevant.
We step in and step up to any challenge such as the work we covered in COVID and during
the Ukraine crisis situation. My feeling is every sector is key to a locality and together
we are certainly much stronger. A world without a thriving VAF and indeed the other charities
with support should not be an option. Our board of trustees ensure that every penny
is well spent and good governance is always a priority.
Similar to EFDC, we regularly make efficiencies
to give the ultimate value to our district.
Our staff and volunteers often go above and beyond
against a backdrop of limited funding.
Just last year, VAF volunteers contributed 6 ,586 hours
of voluntary support, which if costed at the living national wage of £12 .71 per hour equates
to £83 ,708, an in -gift, in -kind gift to the District of Eppin Forest.
So let me now move on to what is not funded by EFDC, but simply because we are here is
happening in the wards that you as councillors support.
Our services and the core work highlighted earlier
are all aligned to the Strong Communities
pillar of EFDC's corporate plan and EFDC's corporate people
strategy as they focus on the health, well -being,
and safety of residents, supporting
vulnerable members of the community and enhancing local engagement. We target support for local
residents, particularly those who are older adults, people living with disabilities and
lower income and socially isolated. Our services are often the difference of somebody not reaching
a crisis situation. I've highlighted our services in the report you have and
tonight you will have seen our quarterly impact report on your tables which
shares our impressive impact made by the interventions we deliver. But let's now
just focus on some of the impressive outcomes that sit alongside our
intervention numbers. I'm going to blow our own trumpet here. Last year, VAF achieved
9 ,381 interventions for local residents. And certainly if I had the VAF team of coordinators
present here tonight, they could keep you here all evening with the positive outcomes
they achieve. But I'll try to be brief. Our Benefits Advice Coordinator, based at all
of the food bank hubs in Epping Forest assist people with benefit applications. People visiting
food banks are struggling financially and the ethos of food banks is to help people
stop needing the support of food banks. By supporting residents, often with disabilities
or family or individual crisis situations, achieve the benefits they have a right to
Jacqui Foile (VAEF) - 0:22:19
claim, they can become less reliant on food bank services.
Last year an impressive £183 ,901 was achieved in benefits for residents by this service.
And sometimes an initial benefit is a stepping stone to help sustain someone into moving
into a different pathway.
Adequate housing and wellbeing for children often enables employment and positive education
and wellbeing for children.
Our benefits advice home visiting service assists residents who for reasons such as
disability or caring responsibilities cannot access the citizens advice service.
I should also add that the Citizens Advice Service are unable to cover home visits, so
they regularly refer into our service.
Many of the clients we support are not in a position to navigate a very long and complex
benefits application form.
Our coordinator supports them with this and achieves the benefits they deserve.
Life changing again comes to mind.
A recent client supported use the benefits achieved to use a taxi to access health services.
Previously they either waited for a bus with a ramp or indeed didn't get to their health
appointment.
So the benefits achieved enabled them to get to their health appointment.
This prevents a crisis situation and ultimately saves the public purse.
A staggering £564 ,951 was generated from successful benefit applications for clients
last year from this individual service.
Unfortunately, this service is under threat of closure.
We are desperately trying to secure funding to continue this very valuable service in
the district. So many of us have probably heard the term
men stand side by side and perhaps talk about the weather. Some men cannot share their situations
which are bringing them down. We know, all of us, that suicidal rates, not just in Epping
but nationally across the country are increasing.
A good idea then is to enable men who may be struggling for various reasons
such as loneliness, isolation, lack of employment, mental health difficulties,
financial reasons or bereavement to get together in a safe and friendly environment.
The VAF Men's Shed held in the Waltham Abbey Museum enables this each Monday.
The men chat, build friendships, are signposted into other relevant services and actually
whilst they are there regularly help the museum with building props for their exhibitions.
A simple concept requiring very little funding but making a huge difference to the lives
of the men that attend. We'd very much like to expand the model and are currently looking
at funding to develop a Men's Shed in Northwold. Partnership working at VAF is key to all of
our work and VAF delivers a great service which actually we couldn't do without a partnership
relationship that we currently have. We have a great relationship with the Grange Farm
Centre in Chigwool, which I'm sure many of you would know. The centre allows our ACE
activities project for people, adults with learning disabilities, to attend sessions
sessions at their premises. Every day of the week, activity sessions are held for Epping
Forest adults with learning disabilities at this venue. We include cooking sessions, art
and craft, singing, sport and gardening. The clients benefit from gaining skills, friendship
and they also have lots of fun. But just as importantly, the families of the clients benefit
from much needed respite whilst their loved ones are attending. Some clients also benefit
from attending upcycling sessions at two local businesses, Goss Springs in Eppin and the

8 Executive Decisions - Call-In

9 Voluntary Action Epping Forest Update on EFDC Funding

Stamford Rivers Timber Yard. I would encourage any of you to visit our clients at the centre,
they absolutely adore welcoming visitors.
So moving on, and I'm nearly there,
loneliness and isolation is sadly prominent
in the lives of many older people.
The VAF community clubs operating in Northwilld,
Loughton and Northwilld addresses this.
We collect older residents in the VAF minibus
and take them to our weekly clubs. Entertainment, games, cakes and lots of
chat take place. Our regular singers always know they have to end with the
club's anthem, Neil Diamond's, Sweet Caroline and honestly every single
resident gets up and has a dance. The residents attending often mention that
the club is the only thing they have to look forward to during their week. Through the
project we also offer trips and just recently when it was unsafe to operate the clubs due
to the extreme heat we've just had, our volunteers and staff did home visits to ensure the clients
was safe and to help with shopping and prescription collections.
I would say that we are incredibly grateful to EFDC for the use of two of your sheltered
accommodation venues, the Leonard David House in North Wield and also Jubilee Court in Wolfram
Abbey where we hold two of our clubs and the Loughton one is held courtesy of St John's
church in Loutum. Currently we're exploring offering another club, possibly at the Lime
Centre and many thanks to James who is exploring that potential with VAF at the moment. Again,
please visit, get in touch, the clients love to have visitors. Lastly, I'll let you know
about the VAF handyman service,
a limited service that we make a very small charge for,
but essential to some residents.
We are all aware of terrible scams
often directed at our older residents.
Our handyman is police checked
and can assist with essential tasks
such as fitting key safes for a carer,
perhaps to access a property
or tacking down a carpet that could perhaps
calls are full and the client could end up in hospital having a hip replacement that
would cost the NHS an awful lot of money. Due to all of the valuable work we cover,
we want to remain in a solid financial position to continue to deliver local services for
local people. But I would also add that we recognise that services across West Essex
can also work and that VAF has been prominent in the West Essex agenda. As part of West
Essex Community Action Network, we can, a separate body that VAF is in membership of
along with Rainbow Services in Harlow and MIND in West Essex, we are delivering a hospital
discharge service. For residents of Eppin Forest and Harlow, our organisation VAF focuses
on Whips Cross. Last year we assisted 351 people who was being discharged, that's 351
Eppin Forest residents to come home with an estimated £265 ,500 cost saving to NHS.
So to sum up today, this evening, VAF is an essential organisation that needs to remain
in the district. We give value for money and are essential to the agenda of prevention
of crisis and we continue to work hard to ensure we achieve positive outputs and outcomes
for local groups and residents. VAF and the voluntary sector should remain the backbone
of Epping Forest. To emphasise, we save money for statutory bodies such as EFDC and the
NHS by preventing crisis situations. If there was not a VAF or indeed a thriving voluntary
sector, people would still need support and indeed considerably more support. It would
cost an awful lot more as people need to go somewhere and statutory services would be
even more stretched. Including funding from EFDC, last financial year we generated $536 ,822
in income and I would kindly request that the support of EFDC continues and
that our relationship can continue to build as we need VAF in Epping Forest.
Thank you again for giving me the opportunity to come here this evening.
Jackie thank you very much. Do any of your guests wish to speak now or we may
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 0:32:59
be participating some questions yes lovely thank you will councillor Murray
was straight to ask his questions so I'm gonna go to him first
councillor Murray okay thank you chairman that's very kind of you I wasn't
expecting that but mine isn't really a question it's a number of comments
because like a lot of other members I was very aware of them and I just first
First of all, to say that I didn't know Hugh Burlidge was in the chamber.
I've known Hugh, the trustee there, since we went to school together in the 1970s, so
I'd absolutely need to declare that.
And also, so that I don't lose it, a former EFDC officer very kindly was mentioned by
Jackie, Chris Overland, and I have to say that a large number of us will remember Chris.
It was a great deal of passion and VAF and what it stands for was very much a vision
driven not only by Chris but by the members and he persuaded at that time that it was
necessary but he was a considerable officer.
I just want to say really that I haven't heard anything that I wasn't expecting to hear and
that wasn't a criticism.
It was good because I haven't heard anything quite so positive from an outside body in
the chamber for a long time.
And I would ask fellow members of the ONS committee, is there anything that we can really
think of where £30 ,000 a year has helped achieve all those things?
Yes, it's been explained that it's the core funding, but without the core funding, which
as Jackie said is extremely difficult to get external funding for, the other things wouldn't
happen.
So I think that the 30 ,000 represents extraordinary value for money.
And I just want to mention two of the things that were mentioned in the report, and that's
probably because I've seen them at first hand.
And again, like other members with other services, I've seen at first hand the debt advice from
a distance, obviously, because it's private, at the Loudoun Food Bank and the member staff
or the person who's paid to do that advice is very, very good.
The clients, customers that come into the Epping Forest Food Bank, Hubbard Loudoun,
really benefit from that advice and if that is happening across the hubs that is really good.
And then another thing that I'm again along with other members very passionate about is I have seen
the ACE activities many many times at close up first hand one of the co -organisers of those
activities. Someone called Ray, I won't mention his second name, is known by a lot of people I
would imagine in the Louton Chibwell area and the work that they do with that particular group of
adult people with learning difficulties just has to be admired. All their activities are really
good and I know that Rob Draper had the Grains Farm Centre see them as a very positive group
that uses the centre. So I think I just want to say in conclusion, thank you Jackie for
your presentation. It was probably the most positive 15 minutes I've heard from an outside
for a long time and for £30 ,000 this is excellent value. And I think it's just a pity that some
of us, again across the chamber and across the group, so I'm not making a party political
point here, had to fight so hard to secure that funding. And I know budgets are difficult
but I hope that in the next budget making round,
we've heard tonight why the VAF grant is essential.
I think that's probably enough for me, Chairman.
Thank you, Councillor Murray.
Councillor McIvor, I see that you've raised your hand.
I'm gonna go to the committee members first,
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 0:37:32
then any members in the chamber can speak.
I must be brave saying that.
Councillor Morgan, the same too.
Any committee members that wish to speak?
We'll go to Councillor Amos, then Councillor George.
Cllr Clive Amos - 0:37:45
Thank you, Chairman. I was very impressed with the range of services that were mentioned
in the report. I've lived in Epping Forest District for getting on for 38 years now,
and I must say that apart from Councillor Janet Whitehouse, who was always very complimentary
about voluntary action, I was unaware of the range of services.
Now, I did send a question through, but I thought it might be instructive
if I ask it here again this evening.
I've been fortunate enough, I've never needed to make use
of any of these services, but I wondered how the vulnerable people
who did need it got to know about the service
and could get the service directed to them.
Thank you.
Jacqui Foile (VAEF) - 0:38:39
Yes, and I do remember responding back, Councillor Amos, but happy to share that again.
So a number of ways.
All of our services are on the frontline system, which I'm sure many of you have heard of.
It's a referral system used by health and social care, GP surgeries, district nurses,
et cetera, and other charities.
and all of those organisations can refer clients into our services via frontline, also people
can individually refer in. So that's one of the ways in which we receive referrals.
We do also put quite a lot out on social media, but we recognise that there's a lot of people
that are not involved in the digital world, as I've spoke about, so we try to get some
of our leaflets around the district.
And I think it's been a bit of a challenge for us.
You know, Epping Forest is quite a large geographical area
made up of a number of towns.
So I think the promotion of our services
is always quite challenging.
And I think this year we've been working quite hard on that,
how we do that.
You'll see that we've recently produced our impact report.
We have 50 volunteers at VAF and they have all agreed to take that out into the different
areas that they're living at.
Perhaps they go to a local cafe or a community centre and we're going to try and ask our
volunteers to help us with distributing some promotional materials and perhaps try and
get them onto some local noticeables, et cetera. It is quite a challenge to make sure that
those that need our service do actually know about us. I would say that also we often find
that a lot of the people we support have quite complex needs and perhaps they are not just
lonely, perhaps they do need a handyman or they do need some benefits advice. So our
services do tend to refer, we provide a bit of a holistic support, so they refer to each
other as well. So I hope that sort of goes some way to answering your question, but I
have to say we're always welcome you know if anybody has any other suggestions
on perhaps how we can advertise our services in in your wards you know we'd
be more than happy to listen and and work with you as local councillors in
your in your specific wards. Thank you. Thank you.
Councillor George.
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 0:41:32
Cllr Mandy George - 0:41:35
Hello Jackie, good evening everyone. Thank you so much for your detailed and comprehensive report on what BAF cover.
Quite diverse and quite impressive actually considering how much that you provide for our residents.
I think it's extremely good value for money.
Personally, I've heard from other councils too,
saying that the 30 ,000 pound is impactful for what you do and
does aid and support what you do.
So as you know, in the last year's budget,
I was supportive.
I'm still supportive of what you do,
because I think per person and what you provide and the
volunteers you get in, the money that you receive as well to help
so many diverse people is absolutely brilliant.
And I am going to book a visit with you one day when my timetable allows me to.
I'm just going to work it out because we're back into September.
But you're going back to how you could promote it.
Are there leaflets at any libraries?
Are there any leaflets at EFDC building?
Because you're right, there are quite a lot of elderly residents
that I've actually spoken to and I've passed them on to you yourself.
and I've said to them, might get in touch with VAF,
this is what they do.
So those are not literate with computers,
they can't get around, can't get out.
It's then they are isolated, so it's just a way to get
through to them.
So perhaps we could discuss how we can reach our residents more
in this area and further afield.
But lovely, Jackie, thank you.
You're doing well.
And certainly we'd welcome that conversation,
Jacqui Foile (VAEF) - 0:43:12
and we do often have our literature here in the civic.
and we do have good relationships with local libraries but I think I'll take
that back as an action and we will be working hard on that because I think as
you say it's important to recognise that a lot of the people that we support are
not involved in the digital world so we need that you know those those other
methods of reaching them. Thank you. Thank you Jackie. We've got Councillor Lucas
then Councillor Meade, then Councillor Whiskin.
Councillor Lucas.
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 0:43:44
Cllr Jodie Lucas - 0:43:46
Thank you, Chairman, and thank you, Jackie,
for giving us your detailed report.
And actually, I'd like to extend my thanks
and put on record to everybody that's involved with the AEF,
particularly the volunteers.
Volunteering is really important, as you mentioned,
and without those volunteers, I'm sure there would be
none of these fantastic services.
My question mainly was already asked by Councillor Amos,
and it really was what you're doing to reach the people that may need these services.
A recommendation or my recommendation or what I'd really like to or would welcome is anything
that's happening on the Wolfram Abbey, Councillor, anything that's happening within Wolfram
Abbey, and I'm sure all members feel like this, anything that's happening weekly, clubs,
activities, services, even the men's shed at the Wolfram Abbey Museum, I didn't realise
as that was on every Monday.
So it'd be really useful to have sort of a bit of an update
on what's happening where.
So when we are speaking to people,
I'd definitely inform like the local town councils as well.
In Wolf Mabie, the town council holds
a monthly surgery stall where they've got lots of leaflets.
So I think it'd be a good idea
to get some leaflets on there,
because you often get a lot of elderly Wolf Mabie residents
attending the Wolf Mabie market
where their surgery stall is.
So just a few ideas for you there, but I definitely recommend whoever the officer is or the volunteer
that is collating the information if they're sought to share it with board members and
councillors and we can hopefully help because it's really fantastic services and it would
just be good to make sure that they're all being used as fully as possible and outreach
into as many people as possible.
Thank you very much.
Jacqui Foile (VAEF) - 0:45:35
That is certainly very helpful and we do have viewers, councillors on our mailing list and
we are sharing our impact report but I see no reason why we can't do some regular updates
as a reminder of what we are currently offering and certainly I will put that as an action
to look at the Waltham Abbey Community Day you have mentioned.
Thank you.
Thank you, thank you. Councillor Meade. Thank you, thank you for your thorough
Cllr Louise Mead - 0:46:04
presentation Jackie. So I can definitely vouch for eight activities
because I really enjoyed visiting as chairman and the awards presentation as
well and the way they make their wooden troughs and things. I
purchased two troughs and they're still in my garden and they're lovely so very good.
So I've just got a couple of questions. One of them is about how you get volunteers.
So I didn't actually know that there was like a matchmaking volunteer thingy -nepping. Was it weekly?
Okay, so I didn't know that and I'm just wondering whether you have thought or whether you have
already thought about sort of doing that in other parts of the district, maybe having a special
volunteer afternoon and contacting the ward councillors who can help with that. Because I get
people asking me about volunteering opportunities and you might find some
brilliant volunteers because at the end of the day it's about volunteers isn't
it that keeps you going. So that was just one thing. And the second
question, you might have covered this, why do you only help We Can for
Whips Cross? Is that because there's a sort of deal with West Essex
rather than Princess Alexandra or does somebody else do that? Thank you.
Jacqui Foile (VAEF) - 0:47:20
I will take the we can question first. We are funded by the ICB, the Integrated Care
Board, to offer a hospital discharge service for Harlow and Eppin Forest residents. It
is just to cover PAH in Harlow, Princess Alexandra and Whips. That is what our funding allows
us to do. It's a very successful project and we're aware that other CVSs across Essex are
also commissioned to cover other services. You may have heard of an organisation in Utlesford
called UCAN, they're the CVS in Utlesford and they pick up support for patients at Adam
Just to make it clear, VAF, although it's covered by WE CAN, our WE CAN organisation,
VAF lead on WIPs and Rainbow Services that are part of WE CAN cover the PAH patients.
And with regards to the volunteer centre, I think, Councillor Meade, we'd like to have
presence every day of the week in different venues but we do have limited funding to run
our volunteer centre. But, as we have said about promotional materials, perhaps we can
have a specific leaflet advertising our volunteer Essex site in those various locations geographically
across the Epping Forest.
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 0:49:11
I have Councillor Whiskin. Thank you, Chairman. Thank you, Jackie. I
Cllr Graham Wiskin - 0:49:14
won't repeat any of the questions. I would just like to say that if the ruling group
come across the Chamber and ask for comments and support of budgeting actions next year,
I will be, for one, supporting this funding. I think if you asked a resident, was it value
for money if you consider how much it's costing them in council tax which is probably pennies
it would be an absolute no brainer to support this cause.
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 0:49:46
Thank you. Thank you, Councillor Whiskin. I will just make a few comments myself as
a member of the committee then I notice there's some other members. Councillor Morgan, yeah,
and Councillor Warren's not a member of the committee so I'll add her to the list of other
members that wish to speak. Firstly, Jackie, I just want to say thank you very much for
your presentation.
I'm going to pull you up on something.
You said that if the AEF wasn't here,
people would still need support.
I don't think you're selling yourself enough.
If the AEF wasn't there, there would be some people that
wouldn't be alive today.
And that's the sort of work that you do.
So thank you.
And don't ever be unconfident enough to share that.
Mental health is a serious issue in this country.
It's made worse by external factors,
whether that be financial stress,
whether that be just people being nasty and not nice
to others.
There's lots of reasons why men in particular struggle to talk
about it, and the fact you provide people with that
opportunity means lives are saved.
So thank you to all of your volunteers.
I did just have a query in relation to,
I know that some of your services, obviously,
in the past, I mean, I've always felt quite uncomfortable when
we've queried it, but it's right as an authority,
we always cheque we're getting value for money.
Do you feel there's anything from your perspective that you could do better, whether that be
with more funding or anything you could do internally to make things more efficiently?
And what are those things and are any of those things matters that this council could help
you with?
Jacqui Foile (VAEF) - 0:51:15
I think we've talked about the challenges of promoting our services and certainly we'll
some actions back there. I hate to come back to the word funding, but that is a challenge
and we very much appreciate that's a challenge for all sectors at the moment. It's time consuming
to achieve funding. As I say, we completely understand the difficulties that all of our
sectors. I think what would be very helpful is if we could move towards longer SLAs, service
level agreements. We're on a yearly one at the moment and that is the case for some of
our other funders. Not all, some of them do offer a longer term. If you do have a longer
term, perhaps three years, that is incredibly helpful and it's also helpful for our members
members of staff as well because we constantly find that we're having to put staff at risk
because we don't know if the next year's funding is coming through.
So I think that would be an ask that if longer service level agreements could be considered,
that would be very helpful, Councillor McIver.
So that's some sort of three or four year plan or something like that?
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 0:52:47
Yes.
That's really valuable feedback and this is the room to have those discussions so I
thought it was important to ask.
And I'm fine before I move on to some other members.
I think on behalf of the county council which is responsible for social care, I should probably
thank you on behalf as a representative of Essex County Council.
I should also thank you for what you do here in Epping Forest that probably saves Essex
County Council particularly when it comes to adult social care.
Perhaps the intervention work that you do is of great benefit to the county and the
pressures that county faces.
I'll move on now to some members.
Anyone else who is a member of the committee that wish to ask a question?
If not, I'll move on to some other members.
So first I've got Councillor Karen McIver.
Thank you, Chair.
Cllr Karen McIvor - 0:53:32
Jackie, thank you very much for your presentation.
My question is more about how volunteers can offer their services to help you.
So I represent an area, the rural area of Epping Forest, which is Moreton, Firefield,
Willingale, Shearing, Matching Green, that sort of area.
I know lots of retired people that would be really keen to help and to come on board.
So I wondered how you share your opportunity with kind of our rural areas and what we can
do to help.
Thank you.
Jacqui Foile (VAEF) - 0:54:02
So I would be – my microphone's still on – I'd be really interested to talk to
you further about that.
perhaps we could meet online or for a coffee.
And you've obviously got that in -depth knowledge
because that's the area you're covering,
perhaps as I've said earlier,
an opportunity to get some of our hard copy leaflets out.
We're always happy to do presentations as well.
So if there are certain groups or, you know,
where the people that are interested in volunteering frequent
be happy to come along and talk to them
about the benefits of volunteering
and what's currently available.
We are always looking for more volunteers
and indeed our volunteer centre, which I've expanded on,
recruits volunteers for other charities.
So, you know, that's part of our role.
It's not, I just wanted to make it clear,
our volunteer centre is not just finding volunteers
for our own services, we are recruiting for other charities.
So that would be really helpful if we could do that actually.
Thank you for that opportunity.
Thank you.
Well, to be honest, if you've got leaflets,
the two best leafletters in my party are sitting over there.
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 0:55:13
So you should definitely, especially Councillor Small,
he has the world record.
Councillor Morgan online.
Thank you, Chair, for allowing me to speak.
Jackie, I just wanted to say a big thank you
of an excellent detailed report by BAEF.
It was so positive and it's really good.
Like Councillor Marley said,
we don't often get such positive reports back
and it was really good.
And I really hope that in the future,
EFDC can continue to support BAEF
and the excellent value for money that we have.
It was really, really good to hear
about the maintenance shed expanding.
It's so important, as we just heard from the chair,
mental health. A lot of men might talk about their mental health and the Men's Shed I know
really allows them to open up while they're doing other things and it's really really
good to hear that you're coming to the Lyme Centre in Grange Hill that I represent so
I'm really pleased about that. Do we have any idea when of a sort of time scale? And
I just want to say a big thank you to all the volunteers for the fantastic job that
you all do. I know quite a few people have come into the Chiggle area to help out people.
Also, if I can talk to you privately about coming to do a talk about the VAEF and the
volunteering opportunities, that would be really good. Thank you. Thank you, Chair.
Thank you, Councillor Morgan.
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 0:56:45
I keep forgetting to turn my microphone on. Well, thank you. I just want to say firstly,
Jacqui Foile (VAEF) - 0:56:48
I will certainly take the thanks back to our volunteers and staff. I'm here just representing
and our trustees, it's really nice to hear that.
Just for a bit of clarity, we're liaising with James
about looking for potentially expanding our community clubs
for older people to the Lime Centre.
And with regards to North Wild,
we've submitted a funding application
to hopefully develop a men's shed in North Wilde.
So just to give a bit of clarity on that.
But I certainly will keep councillors
posted on developments in that field.
And I'd be more than happy to present
Councillor Morgan to whatever group
you would like me to present at.
Thank you.
Thank you, Jackie.
Councillor Brooks.
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 0:57:43
Cllr Rose Brookes - 0:57:46
Thank you very much Jackie. First of all I'd like to say I felt your report
was very concise. Was it Churchill that said people couldn't cope with more than
about an A4C or something? But it was just the right length and also the way
you've reminded us in a visual way about your work. I've got a question. I know
the person, the constituents in my ward have benefited from the visit to the house to help
with attendance allowance. You mentioned other councils do give grants in the district council
Zvezics. I don't expect you to have the figures to hand, but could you give us any idea whether
they're more or less the Nepping Forest and which ones?
Jacqui Foile (VAEF) - 0:58:37
I'm going to introduce my colleague from the board here
who's interestingly been doing a little bit of work on that,
haven't you?
I have.
It's a very relevant question.
Voluntary Action Epping Forest - 0:58:47
Generally speaking, they don't disclose
how much they get from who within their accounts.
Indeed, BAF acknowledges your support, your 30 ,000 support.
But if you look at the company's house, you look at the Charities Commission figures,
it doesn't specifically isolate how much each district council gives to each CBS.
I think research has suggested that it's round about the same level.
But there has been some pressure to reduce.
And Jackie referred to the fact that we have lost in Essex a CBS or two who are not surviving
because they've simply been cut by their district council.
So 30 ,000 I think is about the going rate.
Today what we are seeing if we look across all CVSs in Essex,
that the cash reserves of the CVSs have dropped 20 % in one year.
Now that's not just district council,
because many CVSs have lost their Essex support as well.
That's probably the biggest element of support that's gone,
but between the 23 -24 year which is when Essex were funding them and the 24 -25 year,
which is the last set of accounts that are out, the CBSes have lost about 20 % of their closing
cash reserves and the logical conclusion is that that's been lost because of the Essex grants which
been stopped. The same would probably apply if we then took district councils
and stopped their support and that would be a threat to it to all. Thank you.
Thank you. Councillor Holywhip -Bred. Thank you Chairman and thank you very much for
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 1:00:41
Cllr Holly Whitbread - 1:00:43
the report this evening. It's really helpful to sit in front of scrutiny and
actually quantify some of the things that you deliver and I know personally
of the huge benefit that your work has to many of my residents.
And we've spoken a lot about Men's Shed this evening, but that's something that really
does benefit a lot of people and has huge impacts on their lives.
Obviously, I know we've had many conversations over the years and in the past, but there
are huge budgetary pressures, which is one of the reasons that we've invited you, or
the Scrutiny Committee has invited you, to talk about what you do deliver for our community.
And I think actually this has been really helpful in explaining why you are good value
and actually why Councillors and residents will be fighting to ensure that your funding
is protected.
And I'm aware as well that you take part in the lottery, the EFDC run, and that's a good
source of funding, as well as making applications to the community fund, which is currently
live.
So hopefully some more opportunities for funding
through kind of EFDC -led sources as well.
In terms of your work in enabling other charities,
that's really important as well, and making sure that other
charities are working on the ground.
It keeps resonating with me in terms of support for benefits
because we're seeing a huge pressure in our budget because
of homelessness and increased homelessness, and actually the
work you do there is pivotal in reducing that impact on
our budget as well.
So really thank you.
I do have one question if that's okay.
I was aware of a CVS review by Essex County Council and looking at the kind of bit like
they call government reform, combine a lot of the CVSs.
So with We Can and Rainbow and Harlow, is that kind of being left to a side now, that
kind of change around CVSs?
And I know there was a reduction in funding previously from the County Council.
Is there any hope or have you been lobbying for that funding to come back?
Thank you.
Jacqui Foile (VAEF) - 1:02:43
Thank you for those positive comments, Councillor Whitbread.
So as Hugh mentioned, the funding from Essex County Council for infrastructure support
services stopped over two years ago now.
and some larger national organisations and Essex -wide organisations was commissioned
to do some infrastructure services within different localities and the CVS funding stopped.
And that has been a challenge, it's definitely been a challenge for CVS's and I think to
be fair, communication has been quite slim with county, but I'm pleased to say with a
new administration, the CVSs who work very closely together, they're part of GEDCA, Greater
Essex Voluntary Community Action. We have had some positive meetings yesterday just
with Councillor Chris Hosock at ECC,
who is the cabinet member for residents and communities.
And certainly Councillor Hosock's wants
to start those conversations again with local CVSs.
There is a workshop planned in November,
face -to -face workshop.
Certainly we talked about local district councillors
been invited, if it's your portfolio area.
So I think that there is an appetite from Essex to start
that communication again and certainly a recognition of
what is delivered locally.
So I think we're quite excited about those
conversations, particularly the workshop.
With regards to the West Essex situation, there isn't
any plans as far as I know in West Essex at this stage for any mergers amongst the West
Essex CVSs, but I would say this, I think in West Essex we have been ahead of the game.
A number of years ago Rainbow Services, VAF and at that point UCAN developed We Can that
I mentioned in my presentation. It's a legal entity, it's a company limited by guarantee.
we are able to draw down funding that is more aligned to delivery across West Essex.
So I think that is a positive for Repping Forest that we are in that agenda.
And we're aware that health commissioners tend to prefer to commission on a wider West Essex locality.
So I think although, Councillor Whitbread, we're not talking about a merger, certainly
we have strong and legal relationships with Harlow.
You can, are not part of We Can anymore, but as I mentioned, MIND in West Essex, a very
relevant and strong organisation, are now part of We Can.
So I think that can only be looked on as a positive for our district.
Thank you. And finally I have Councillor Sungga.
Cllr Darshan Sunger - 1:06:15
Thank you, Chair and Jackie. Thank you very much for your report and I think certainly
the numbers and all that actually helps us piece together why it's important to, or why
the funding should go to VAEF. You mentioned about extending your survey, promoting what
you do and how you get the word out.
I'm wondering if you've been able to communicate
to community champions through the town and parish councils
because if you can connect there,
you might be able to have some sort of synergy.
Thoughts?
Certainly.
Certainly I can take that away as an action.
Thank you.
Jacqui Foile (VAEF) - 1:06:55
Thank you.
Unless there's any other members that wish to speak.
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 1:06:59
Jackie, I just want to say thank you so much
to you and your colleagues for joining us this evening.
Certainly, as far as I'm concerned,
your organisation is an asset to our community,
and we're very lucky to have you.
And I sincerely hope that members of the cabinet
have heard the importance of perhaps long -term security
in terms of funding.
And hopefully now that LGR is off,
which we can all rejoice in that news,
there is a real opportunity to plan as a district
rather than plan into the unknown.
Thank you and you're welcome to stay and fall asleep with us or you're welcome to leave
the chamber at any point as we move on with the meeting.
Thank you very much Jackie to you and your colleagues for being here.
Jacqui Foile (VAEF) - 1:07:50
Thank you again for giving us the opportunity and we'll probably take the opportunity to
leave now but thank you again.
I can't believe the rest of the agenda doesn't excite you.
We're about to move on to organisational performance.
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 1:07:59
Thank you. I'll give you a moment. Okay members, so we'll move on to item 10 which is the organisation

10 Organisational Performance and project portfolio Q1 Outtturn Report

performance quarter one. The next item is quarter one year organisation performance
report and I'd like to invite Paula McGinnis to introduce the report. Paula.
Paula Maginnis - 1:08:26
I shall move.
Thank you, Chairman.
The report before the committee this evening is the first report of the municipal year
Paula Maginnis - 1:08:51
and as the title says, it is the out -turn figures for quarter one.
The committee is asked to consider the performance
of the council and recommending to cabinet for approval,
alongside any comments and considerations
that you have will be forwarded to cabinet.
So paragraph 1 .2 of the report sets out the summary
of the council's performance.
So 23 KPIs have met a target,
17 are highlighted in the main body of the report that are either within tolerance or
they haven't met the target.
So each of those indicators outside performance includes a corrective action and the full
suite of KPIs is included at Appendix A for your consideration.
The committee is asked to note the very good news that the KPI for fly tipping has improved
from red status to green and that is set out in paragraph 1 .4 of the main report.
At your last meeting, members requested examples of the types of queries that our customer
Services team handled and details can be found at Appendix D of the report.
Included in the report are our focus on three priority projects, the Broadway refurbishment,
LGR and the finance system. As we are now aware, the LGR projects and work have been
paused following the government's announcement yesterday. But the
highlight reports for the other two projects are included at Appendix B and
Appendix C of the report. Officers are in attendance this evening both
in the Chamber and online if you've got any questions that you would like to ask
regarding the performance of the council.
So thank you, chairman.
Thank you.
I know I've got a couple of questions,
but do any members have questions first?
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 1:11:10
Councillor Whiskin.
Thank you, chairman.
Cllr Graham Wiskin - 1:11:14
I've got several questions, several points.
I'll try and get the,
page 23, the average numbers of days lost due to sickness.
That is a figure which is not improving.
It is a measure of the happiness within an organisation and it's not a good sign.
Can we get some assurance that this is being addressed or whether it's symptomatic of the
spectre of LGR which has now gone away and that may increase?
Could we have a comment on that?
Thank you.
Paula Maginnis - 1:11:55
That falls in my area of corporate services.
The top five reasons for sickness absence that fell into quarter one are back problems,
etcetera, injuries like that.
That is double the amount of any other reason for sickness absence.
We've got benign and malignant tumours, cancers that are second.
We have got mental health as the third, but that isn't related to work, related to stress.
stress. We've got three mental health categories, one around anxiety, depression, one around
non -work -related stress and one around mental health for work -related stress. Work -related
stress does not appear in the top five categories. And then we've got things like infectious
gastro illnesses etc in that top five as well. So in terms of unhappiness I think
probably not looking at these figures here you're talking about physical
causes rather than mental health, stress and anxiety.
Councillor Wiskin.
Thank you.
So basically you're saying we've been unlucky,
Cllr Graham Wiskin - 1:13:33
which is unfortunate and I wish those people well.
Further in the report,
there are items about the performance of QPS,
which are going in the wrong direction.
customer satisfaction, repairs, etc, etc. Could we have some clarity on what's going
on there and why that's happening? Hopefully it's not endemic of the other issues which
we have with QALIS.
Paula Maginnis - 1:14:10
Dawn Harrison is online that could help with that. Councillor.
the
satisfaction survey.
The satisfaction survey tends to produce a low satisfaction
score compared to the remainder of the year. Unfortunately Ben
is not here today so I will have to get some further advice on
that particular indicator.
Repairs of transaction 93%, it is just outside the 95. I know
that the quality team are actually working with the asset
to try to drive up customer satisfaction in that particular area.
As it says, the main themes were for poor standards of repair and poor communication.
I think that with the introduction of the bot for taking calls and triaging,
we should hopefully see some further improvements with that particular indicator.
On -plant maintenance, we've only just started using new contractors,
so we expect there to be a bit of a lag in terms of the performance there and satisfaction.
and as we move through the programme and contractors are fully bedded in, again we expect to see
an improvement in those issues. Dampen mould, there was actually one particular case that
has driven down that particular indicator from 100 % down to 97%. Overall, they meet
the target regularly in terms of actually getting access into homes and doing an required
inspection within 14 days and then getting works all completed.
As I say, this was just a one -off case in three months
of one particular applicant where we couldn't get into the property.
Electrical testing, again, we set out a high standard tier of 100%.
We're at 98%. That's a huge improvement compared to last year
when it was down to 86%.
There are some tenants who proved difficult to give access to us
and we're further impacted on that now in terms of how we can actually gain access
because the legislation has changed in terms of the injunction process but teams are working
hard and we're looking at every interaction that we have with a resident, having flags
and systems so it identifies that there's an outstanding compliance certificate outstanding
so that we can piggyback on any other visits to try to get those achieved.
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 1:16:38
Okay, thank you. I can see Councillor Murray has raised his hand, so go to Councillor Murray.
Thank you, Chairman. There's quite a few issues I could bring up tonight, but some of them
we have discussed in previous meetings, so I will assist the opportunity. And I will
just focus on two parts of the report, if you don't mind. Page 46, and I want to understand
what I'm looking at, it says only 57 .4 %
of the planned maintenance programme has been done.
I'm assuming that's 57 .4 % of what we would reasonably
expect to be done in the first quarter
if it was spread across the four quarters.
Can I first of all ask that question
to make sure I've understood what I'm looking at
and then I want to ask a question on that.
Councillor Lawrence, sorry, could you just clarify
which indicator that number is on the side of the page there?
44.
Yeah, 44.
Thank you very much.
So it ties in really around the satisfaction response
that I gave.
So contractors have been onboarded,
so there's been a bit of a lag of them starting the work.
So we're only at 50 % where we should really have been
at 95 % of the programme.
As they've been onboarded, they will be picking up pace
and there'll be other work streams introduced as well.
So we should be able to catch up
and be on target towards the end of the year
in having met all of the works required
on the planned programme.
Okay, well, I'm not assuming,
I wouldn't have thought we would have expected 95 %
to be done in quarter one.
So what that is is 50 % of what,
57 % of what we would have expected.
Would have been doing, yes.
Okay and I think you've answered my follow -up question. We've got every
reason to believe now we've on board with them that by the end of call before we
will reach at least 95 % of the programme. Absolutely yes. Lovely.
My other question and forgive me Chairman I'm gonna have to scroll down.
It's one of the big projects and it's the Broadway refurbishment. Can I
I first of all just say that there's been a change of format in the reporting of these
projects.
I don't know when it took place.
I think this is the first time I've seen this format and I have to say I struggled a bit
and much preferred the old format of reporting on these projects.
But I got there in the end and I really just want to make a couple of positive comments
Chairman because this has gone a little bit under the radar apart from the fact that I
I mentioned the LBRNS meeting,
the refurbishment of the Broadway flat,
massive area of commercial property
and flats along one of our primary shopping grounds,
all owned by EFDC, has been going on now
for about the last two and a half years.
And I just wanted to say,
the way the project has been managed
And the way that decisions have been made along the way,
because some of the decisions weren't foreseeable
until you start actually doing the works,
I think has been excellent.
Both myself, Councillor Neckie and Councillor Rackman
represent half the board by one half is in Rundey Ward,
the other half is in Trenby Ward.
I can only speak for myself, Councillor Nackie and Councillor Rackman, we've really engaged
with this project and I have to say that the amount of officer support that has been given
to us and the fact that they have welcomed our engagement has been great.
And there's been two occasions where residents have come to us and the reason why I don't
been as many is because the resident liaison and officer on site has worked extremely well
but there's been two occasions when officers, residents have come to us as Road Award members
and I have to say the officer response has been first class. I've mentioned him again
and I've mentioned him before and I'm going to mention him again and I probably will mention
in the project is actually signed off.
Tondane, the officer who's been responsible
for managing this project at a kind of corporate level,
has been absolutely superb.
One of the best officers I've had an opportunity
to work with and his response time to inquiries
as regards residents and so on is to be acknowledged tonight.
So very positive on that one, Jim.
Thank you, Councillor Murray.
If I can just, if possible, just go back to item 44.
I did have a question.
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 1:21:51
I didn't want to interrupt Councillor Murray.
I don't feel, and please correct me if I'm wrong,
I don't feel satisfied with the progress
because if you're telling me it was 42 % in April
and then in May it was 52%, that's an increase of 10%,
then in June it's 57%, which is an increase of 5%.
If we follow on that trajectory,
then we're gonna be looking at like 59.
That doesn't feel like the speed progress
that you'd have if you've now onboarded additional people.
And also I just want to understand
why were we in such a capacity shortage problem
in the first place?
And to what extent are we confident
that with the progress, which I don't necessarily feel
is actually progress you'd expect
from being fully onboarded?
I just wonder if I'm reading the figures wrong,
please correct me, but I just don't actually feel satisfied
with that progress personally.
I just wonder if it could be explained.
Okay, so the improvement from April through to June
has been with just the kitchen and bathroom contractor.
Later in the corrective action,
it talks about additional curriculum being underway.
So whilst it may have been only 5 % in the last month,
that increase will,
so that percentage increase will improve
as the new additional contractors come aboard
and take on new work streams. So we're talking about windows, doors and roofs which hasn't
been included in Q1 at this stage.
So we still don't have the windows, doors and roofs procurement?
It's been procured, it's gone through the procurement process, I think we're just waiting
to get contracts signed, we know who's going to be doing the work for us, there's also
some technical works as well.
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 1:23:26
So when do we expect those to be live and operational?
I believe within the next couple of months but I will get a clarification from Qualis
because this is a procurement exercise that's been undertaken on their part and the reason
for the delay is where contracts were usually commissioned by EFDC and the works are being
commissioned through Qualis' dynamic purchasing model of which we are involved and residents
are involved.
Has that new procurement model with QALYST, has that slowed things down compared to what
it would have been normally?
No, it's a standard process.
It would have been the same.
It's not slowed things down at all.
In fact, it's a natural quicker process because we don't have to go through the whole OG process
for each individual contract.
Thank you, Donna.
Jen?
Thank you, Chairman.
Jennifer Gould - 1:24:18
If it would be helpful for the committee, I can ask Ben Johnson, the Manager -General
of QPS to get a little bit more detail around that particular KPI because I can understand
why you're struggling to understand the numbers. So I can ask him to do that and attach it
for the minutes of the committee.
Yeah, that would be very helpful. Thank you very much. Any other members wish to speak?
Councillor Lee.
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 1:24:36
Cllr Jeane Lea - 1:24:39
KPI's mean nothing to me, I have to say. But I've got a question as you're talking. They
No, don't. Fixing things or not fixing them.
I want to know why an elderly lady of an 80 -odd who can't get in and out of a bath is told
that there's a two -year wait for a wet room when I have a flat round corner that is empty
because now they're taking out the wet room and putting a bath back in. Why would you
put a bath back in a wet room in a ground floor flat when you've got people waiting
to have a wet room who can't possibly get in and out of a bath. That's a waste of maintenance time.
So that's just to me. Now work on the KPIs over your life, they mean nothing to me.
Well Councillor Lee, that's what you've just provided, is real life.
Well that's just an ordinary everyday person.
I'm intrigued to hear the answer. Who can answer the question? Go on Jen.
Jennifer Gould - 1:25:38
Thank you Chairman. Councillor Lee, if you want to contact me with a specific case, I will look into it personally for you.
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 1:25:45
There's enough politicians in here Jen. Thank you. That's great. I'll be intrigued that maybe
that could be attached in minutes as well but I think Councillor Lee you raised a very important
point that we do sit here and we get a bit obsessed with the data but there are real life
examples and they're just as important and actually we discussed this at our previous
meeting so point well made. Councillor Patel. Thank you chair. I just wanted to add on the
Cllr Smruti Patel - 1:26:03
back of what Dawn said and actually even referring to Eugene where you know we talk about numbers
like we have done in the chambers, and sometimes we don't realise the softer stuff that goes
behind it.
So when we talked about procurement, something we've done which is different is we've had
the residents' involvement in that.
And in one of my one -to -ones when I've spoken to one of our officers, Keith, it was just
amazing because all they do is facilitate it and the panel takes over.
And the type of residents we had on board, some were contractors or construction people
and surveyors and it was just amazing that they were allowed, they were able to get into
the nitty -gritty of these companies that were put forward in terms of the ones we would
choose or procure basically for some of the works we would have done. So it was quite
nice and really positive to hear that and that's something I suppose, yeah, you'd probably
like to hear that residents were actually involved in picking these companies as well
so that's quite a good positive thing from the resident panel that we put together from
the last survey. Thank you Councillor Patel. Any other members wish to speak on
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 1:27:09
Cllr Louise Mead - 1:27:11
Councillor Meade? Yeah I just want to go back to 44 again and I just wondered
because it says here two new contractors are working on the bathroom and kitchen
programme it doesn't say additional contractors I just wondered why new
ones is it because the old ones weren't any good or what happened? What was the background to that?
Contracts had expired, Councillor Meade, so it was a re -procurement for those services.
Sorry, I just want to clarify that.
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 1:27:37
We obviously knew the contract was expiring, so why are we in a situation where we haven't procured in advance of the contract expiration?
Yeah.
Thanks, Sharon.
They would have procured,
but there is always a period of onboarding
Jennifer Gould - 1:27:53
when new contractors, and there's always,
you always approach it with slight caution
so as not to sort of flood them with work
that potentially they can't,
because you want to cheque the quality
within an initial period of time, so that's why.
But I do think it'd be helpful for us
to get a much bigger picture for you in a bit more detail on that particular one. But
it's quite usual that the first couple of months will be slower because the quality
of the work will be being checked, the processes with new contractors will be being ironed
out and sorted out.
But we're in a position now where the contract has expired and we still don't have the new
contracts signed, is that right?
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 1:28:32
No, no, no, they are...
Jennifer Gould - 1:28:34
I haven't got the detail around doors and windows, but for the others they're in borders.
Yeah, no way.
Thank you.
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 1:28:41
Cllr Craig McCann - 1:28:47
Okay, any other members? Oh, Councillor Cairn. Thank you, Chair. I think I'd like to commend
the work of officers. I see Maggie Thompson here on the KPIs around fly -tipping. As a
Councillor in a very rural ward, this is a real blight for us, a really significant issue.
And I've seen real quantum surge in activity, prior to activity over the last few months,
I'm really glad to see that's been fed through into these figures.
Still some work to do in the, I think, the nuance around the KPIs and I know that, Manny
Thompson, you're working on that.
So that's, I think, a very welcome step forward.
Just to say really, really, I've had very regular contact with both Manny Thompson and
her team, as well as the portfolio holder, my board colleague, Councillor Soonger.
And the figures are the figures, but when the time I sit at the tarmac, I've got to
say the level of responsiveness has been really, really brilliant over the last few months.
I've been making a phone call through to the team, reporting a fly tip, as have members
of the Landborn Parish Council, and some of these have been cleared within the day. So
we're really seeing the impact on the ground of your collective efforts. So thank you very
much. Thank you, Councillor McCann.
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 1:29:58
of course. Councillor Brooks. Thank you very much and one's a query and a comment
Cllr Rose Brookes - 1:30:03
really and perhaps I'm not quite sure in that order and I only phoned the contact
centre as an absolute last resort perhaps three times a year but I am
finding that I'm waiting 28 minutes sometimes. The service you get is
excellent, the staff are superb but at times that and I do try ringing at
different times. They are obviously inundated with calls and it's very hard for them to
do a good job. Do we need more people? At certain times, I know you close it sometimes
when they have to have a staff meeting or whatever, but that was one of my queries.
And the other is about complaints. I know a few years ago in the bulletin we used to
have perhaps a more detailed breakdown than we got a couple of weeks ago, the area where
people are complaining about.
I would, for instance, have been quite interested
in seeing how many were for planning, for instance.
And also, I noticed it was 2 .2 got to housing ombudsman.
Now, some time ago at one of our screuthonies,
Jen mentioned that there'd been a general picture
across the country of more and more complaints
in the councils receiving.
but what sort of area, if you were able to say, got to the ombudsman level?
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 1:31:32
Jennifer Gould - 1:31:34
The director of customer services isn't able to be here this evening, so I won't have the
detail that she would have had, I've got to be honest. Just in terms of the call volumes
coming into the customer service. Quarter one was extremely busy. I think there's quite
a bit of narrative that she's put in the report around the numbers of calls that were being
made as a result of the changes in the waste service and that really did send demand for
customer service through the roof across all of the channels actually. That has now stabilised
and I think she's put the figures, sorry, I've got it in front of me, but the figures for the last couple of months
where that service is now stabilised, we're back to sort of normal levels, so you shouldn't now certainly be
experiencing that level of a weight on the telephone lines. I think it's inevitable when we change services
like waste that we're going to get an increase in the numbers of people contacting us, but as I say,
pleased to say that that's stabilised. We have got the detail actually that sits behind
what you see here is the high level figure around complaints so I think we can get that
together and again we can attach that to the minutes for the ONS committee.
Funny enough I was on a call today with some of the colleagues from local authorities around
the country talking about complaints and we are all just experiencing increasing numbers
of complaints across all council services.
And a lot of those complaints that are coming
in are AI generated, so people are using artificial
intelligence to write complaints.
However, while the use of AI has probably increased the number
of complaints, I think what it's done is make complaints more accessible to people. So it's
not necessarily what's driving the complaint, but it is enabling people, you know, rightly
to point out when a service has fallen short of the standard that you would expect it to
be at. So we need to think differently about how we are responding to those and get a bit
ahead of the game and there is actually we're doing a piece of working in customer services who manage the complaints for the
organisation around that some of those AI
very obviously AI generated complaints and how we can respond to those because because
Some of them are more akin to service requests than complaints, but but because the way of the way in which they've been
Put together they register as a complaint. So we just need to think about a response of that
So it's a bit of a new world that we're entering
around that. So I haven't got the figures to hand about areas for complaints.
Housing is very obviously one of them, all of those sort of frontline services
where people are not necessarily accessing the help and support that they
feel they should be. And you know as we've talked about in this chamber
previously, there is a gap between people's expectation and what can be
delivered and that often drives a number of complaints and as we are in a you
know the current climate where people are finding themselves shorter of money
where housing is is less and less accessible to lower -income families that
is driving that demand because the service isn't necessarily meeting their
expectations. Thank you Jen. I've got Councillor Whiskin and Councillor Morris. I just wanted to
to be reminded members and thank officers.
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 1:35:18
As part of our feedback from the previous meeting,
I asked for some qualitative data,
similar to what Councillor Lee has mentioned,
some actual real life examples.
I'm really pleased to say they are on page,
so I meant to mention this earlier,
pages 52 to 56 are just some real life examples
of residents getting in touch with the council,
the situation, the actions of the officers,
and the outcomes, and there's some positive feedback there
from residents.
I'm very keen that when we scrutinise
some of the things that could be better,
we're also recognising the outstanding work
of our officers when they get it right.
So if you haven't had a chance to read that yet,
it's on pages 52 to 56.
Council Whiskin.
Thank you, Chairman.
Back to the fly tipping.
Cllr Graham Wiskin - 1:35:59
Great news that there's progress.
I'll ask it again, I've asked many times,
and maybe the officer might direct something
at the Chairman on this.
What are we doing to urge Essex County Council
to open their tips on a more frequent basis
so that perhaps it would be more attractive to people
who might think about fly tipping
to put it in the council tip.
Mandy Thompson - 1:36:31
Ms
the country to talk about fly -tip in and how you know what our response is to
that and one of the the things that did come up was the issue of the waste and
recycling centres and the the appointment system and the closure of
them and that is going to be picked up through the LGA to speak to the county
councils around what the proposals are, if any, around either reopening some of them
up or addressing some of the appointment issues. Although all of the feedback that we get is
that they are more accessible now through the appointments than previously, but we need
to see the data for that, which we will continue to push for.
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 1:37:32
Consider a couple of the county councillors lobbied on your behalf as you said that, but
what I will say is any barriers to people going to the tip is ridiculous, but having
said that, there is good anecdotal feedback to suggest that booking appointment means
that people are more likely to go because they're not having to queue as much. However,
I think there are plenty of people that need to be reminded that there are, if you do go
to the tip and you don't have an appointment and you're elderly, perhaps you can't use
an iPad to book one. That doesn't mean you can't use one and that needs to be better
communicated but balanced so that people don't just not book altogether. Thank you for going
to the LGA thing on that. That's very helpful that we had representation there. Thank you,
Mandy. Councillor Morris.
Cllr Martin Morris - 1:38:16
Thank you, Chairman. I just had a question on, I think it's page 30 of the report, total
value of sundry debt outstanding. It's currently standing at 3 million. It says it's a 50 per
improvement, but $3 million is still a considerable amount of money given the way budgets are
working. Can we have a bit more information on what is the project to improve debt collection
and how much of this $3 million will we ultimately expect to write off?
Yes, sorry.
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 1:38:44
So, there's many facets to the project.
Owen Sparks - 1:38:51
I suppose what we've done is we've remapped the processes across the Council for debt
collection and that starts on how you raise the debt to actually the collection processes
as you go through it.
We've also reviewed the internal communications and roles and responsibilities within the
Council.
We've increased resources to the debt collection area in Sunday debtors, so you've got more
resources and at the moment we're looking at top 50 debts that we're focusing on collecting.
Obviously that takes time to work through.
I couldn't tell you hand on heart how much the debt is written off, you need to go through
that process, but those cornerstones are in place to try and bring that down and that's
what's occurred during that project.
Any other members wish to speak?
Councillor Lucas.
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 1:39:39
Thank you, Chairman.
Cllr Jodie Lucas - 1:39:43
It was just when Jen mentioned AI that it came to my mind to think what are we doing
as a council to utilise AI to benefit us rather than it being against us, like people using
it to write complaints.
What are we doing?
It would be good to know across all of these departments, with all of these negative KPIs,
or the ones that are in the red, I should say, it would be worth thinking,
how can we use AI to actually mitigate those?
Could it be the call centre I know, or on the website I know now,
like I was trying to make contact with an airline recently,
and I just couldn't get through to anybody, but I used the bot,
and it was 11 p .m. at night, and I managed to get the answers that I needed to get.
So it was just when Jen mentioned AI and whilst looking at KPIs, we are in a world where AI
is not going away and I think it would be worth before the next quarter reports come
back to us asking officers in their comments or corrective actions to give us a little
bit more information of how they may use AI to benefit that in the future.
We need to be AI -ing them back.
I think perhaps this is something to mention.
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 1:40:55
Please bring that up at the work programme item because I think there might be a broader
Owen Sparks - 1:41:02
conversation there. Yes. I think as a council we've proved the AI policy. I
think what we're doing is really using mainly co -pilot but also there's AI in all
different systems council uses these days it's sort of built in. What we will
be doing again it was quite difficult in our digital transformation journey with
LGR coming forward because again we wanted to make sure we were consistent
with potential partners. I think as part of our work going forward we'll look at how we
can expand AI use.
I think, again, just for the Chair's benefit,
there is a report that will be going
to the audit governance committee
around AI use and controls as well.
So again, perhaps they can support each other.
Brilliant, thank you.
We've now got Councillor Murray and Councillor Morgan.
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 1:41:43
So Councillor Murray first.
Thank you.
My question arises from the discussion around complaints
and AI actually, and I'm sure like other members.
I would say probably within the last six months, I'm beginning to experience quite a large
number of inquiries, which would normally be really just very simple inquiries, and
you find out about this, blah, blah, blah, can you do this?
And they're now wishing as if they've gone through a top London barrister and an insurance
company, because they quote insurance regulations, they quote legislation, they quote case law,
So they've obviously been generated by AI.
I tend to treat them as if they're written in a nice old -fashioned way.
But I just wondered what offices do, because I can't do anything else from that.
But how do offices deal now with what are relatively simple requests, really,
but they're dressed up with all this fancy, you know, what I've said?
What's our policy about dealing with inquiries like that?
Paula Maginnis - 1:43:01
We heard about some of it today in our customer services team, dealing with complaints around
looking at AI to pick out the pertinent points of somebody's complaint because we are getting
complaints that are 18 plus pages.
And yes, because that's what happens when AI gets involved.
And Nicola also gave her a bit of an update around some advice that's come from her professional bodies around the increase in using ghost legislation and cases that they're not true.
they're not it's not right so we are alive to those sorts of issues that are
coming through the door. I've seen it in my own councillor case work and say it's
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 1:43:56
definitely a thing. Thank you. Next, Councillor Morgan. Thank you
it was just quickly to go back on the fly tipping.
And it would be nice if we could have what was said
at the LGA about fly tipping shared with the councillors
outside of this meeting as a hard copy
so we can just see what's happening.
Because yesterday, well actually yesterday evening,
I reported 16 fly tips within the Tukewell area.
But I've got to say on a positive note,
like Councillor McCain said, some of them are being cleared extremely quickly. I had reports
of four of them that were cleared by 3pm today, so within six hours they were cleared, which is
absolutely fantastic. But we've had reports of people who are questioned that have been
flight tipping, just small items like there was one at the microwave the other day,
a resident stopped them and the person turned around and said, well what am I supposed to do
the flight tip where I'm flight tipping it because the actual tip is closed.
Unfortunately I can't repeat what the resident replied to him but it wasn't their flight but
this is what is happening because the tips are not open and there's reduced service people are
flight tipping it because it's easier for them but I would really appreciate if we could share
the information that we can't speak so that we've received from the officers today outside of this
in Harscup, it would be really appreciated. Thank you.
Thank you, Councillor Morgan. Mandy, sorry.
Mandy Thompson - 1:45:37
Yes, certainly. As soon as I've got the notes of the meeting that come through, because it's only happened very recently,
and I've been on annual leave, I'll make sure that we circulate that.
What I'll do is I'll do a member briefing and put that in the circular that goes out on a weekly basis,
as what we've been doing with the enforcement updates
around fly tipping, sort of like to increase the awareness
around the work of the team.
So I'll make sure it gets included in that.
Thank you.
Councillor Songa.
Thank you.
Thank you, Chairman.
I just want to highlight something
Cllr Darshan Sunger - 1:46:05
that's come to my attention.
A lot of our ward council, a lot of councillors in EFDC
tend to send an email straight to our officers.
That's helpful.
What's even more helpful is if you can actually register
that particular location where there's a flight
to be an incident, because it allows our offices
in the background to actually start the process.
And we have got a timescale to get that particular waste,
the waste identified.
If a flight tip is not taken away straight away,
it's because there's a process in the background,
which I think in the next, my report,
we will be outlining the timescales.
but Councillor Morgan, I know you directly like to email me
and that's not a problem, but if you could actually,
it'd be even faster if you actually send,
if you registered the fly tip and send it to our officers
because they work much more faster than myself.
Thank you.
Thank you, Councillor Sunge.
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 1:47:11
Councillor Morgan, is that an old hand or a new hand?
There's a new one just in response to say,
Councillor Sunge, yes, I have reported every single fly tip,
apart from the two that was on the private land
that you'd been looking at previously,
and that's why I sent it directly to you.
But every other fly tip, so far 20 this month,
I've gone through the process,
and that is the correct process,
and I agree with you, thank you.
Thank you.
Well, members, unless anyone else has anything,
I'm going to move on to next items.
We have still got some matters on the agenda.
I'd like to thank all the officers who are here in person
for this particular report,
and please feel free to go if you don't think you're required for any of the other items.
And members, can we just note the comments and agree to the recommendations that are in this report?
Agreed? Thank you. Okay.
So, we'll move on now to item 12.

11 Budget Monitoring Report - 2026/27 Quarter 1

This is the Budget Monitoring Report 2026 -27, Quarter 1.
Members, this can be found on pages 57 to 78 in your Agenda Report Pack.
And I'll ask Councillor Holly Whitbread to outline the monitoring report.
Thank you, Chairman.
Cllr Holly Whitbread - 1:48:21
And I will pass over to Mr Sparks to provide the report in detail, but just to introduce
the report, which I hope that members have had a good opportunity to look at.
And you would have seen from the report that we are in a relatively positive financial
position for the beginning of Quarter 1, with an underspend of 150 ,000 projected for the
year.
However, we are seeing some real key challenges for the year ahead.
Homelessness is a particular theme that we've discussed in many meetings and continue to
see as a rising demand and pressure on the general fund.
We have taken various and are taking various measures to mitigate this.
However, pressure continues well.
Those measures are being put into place.
I should say the quarter one position informs our medium term outlook.
So looking towards budget setting both for this year and future years.
We've previously set out a five year medium term plan.
However, obviously we're going to have to refocus and relook at this in terms of local government reform
and what it actually now means for the budget.
And I believe we'll now have to look at a transformation process
which was put to one side with local government reorganisation in mind.
I'd like to take this opportunity to thank those members who are engaging in the Budget Working Group,
which we've had two meetings of so far, I think all but one party have attended.
I would encourage all groups to have representatives on the committee.
It's a really good chance to look at the budget in detail, look at the challenges we face
and look at the decisions that we have ahead of us.
But as I said, Mr Sparks will focus in on some key areas, but this is a relatively positive
position at this stage.
There are key risks and pressures which continue and obviously the wider economic uncertainty
continues and is a significant concern.
Thank you, Chairman.
Owen?
Thank you.
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 1:50:24
I think there's much more to add to that, but I'll go for a little bit of detail.
Owen Sparks - 1:50:28
I think just on the general fund under spend, I think it's just worth flagging there are
some overs and unders that are compensating to get to that position. On the positive side,
we've got higher than anticipated planning income, but also very mindful of the current
designation. We need to watch that very carefully. We have got reduced capital financing costs,
additional green waste income that members will be aware of. We've got some savings during
in ICT and corporate services budgets.
But they are set, we've got some pressures
in short -falling commercial property income.
Homelessness, again, is an ongoing pressure for us,
and we are looking at a lot of detail
to see how that impact will map out over the next few years.
We've also increased our bad debt provision,
which reflects on the work we're doing on debt collection.
And we're expecting audit fees also to increase,
to do with the bill back work,
the authors are doing to get assurance going into the next couple of years. On the capital
programme side, the general fund is pretty much assuming it will be on budget at the
year end. On the HRA position, there's an under spend of forecast of under a million
pounds. Again, that is principally due to a number of things, some service restructuring,
lowering low utility costs and also reduce borrowing costs.
And the HRA capital programme similarly is at,
forecast to be about 1 .3 million pound under spent.
Again, that's just time differences
with some of the acquisition work
and some of the planned maintenance work.
In the report, there's also a recommendation
for members to approve a change to building control fee,
which is updating that fee based on inflation
and the fact that obviously another year has gone by
and that's our charge for building control.
And again, I think as Councillor Whitbread said,
this is our quarter one position,
is our building block really flows,
budget discussions are ongoing.
And again, that is set against that one and a half million
pounds starting shortfall in 27, 28
and 2 .7 million pounds shortfall in 28, 29.
So against that context, I have to take any questions.
Thank you very much.
First of all, Councillor Murray.
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 1:52:40
Thank you, Chairman. I have got a couple of questions. Just by way of introduction, it
is this kind of report I always struggle to really understand because it is not one of
my strengths. But as I say to my school pupils, that does not mean you should not have a go
just because you find something difficult. So I have had a look at this. I have got quite
I've got a few questions I could ask,
but I'm gonna save most of those to cabinet.
But probably prompted by what we heard tonight
from the member of the public,
which I know will probably be discussed more
under the work programme,
because I found that quite very interesting
and very challenging.
So my precise question, and I've got two of them,
is on page 72,
Cllr Stephen Murray - 1:53:37
and it's the table 6 .1, which is the general fund capital programme.
And we've got down there Qolis loans for this year, 26, 27, 9 .48 million.
And obviously, forecast spending would be the hold of that figure.
I understand what a loan is.
But my chief questions are, is that a new loan?
an extra loan over and above what Qantas have already borrowed from EFDC.
And what would be the professional opinion of our finance team, and I'm presuming it
will be our finance officer tonight, that we will actually recover all the monies plus
interest that Qantas owns.
I'm not saying we're going to recover them in 12 months, but looking to the future, particularly
as LGR has been delayed,
but even if LGR hadn't been delayed,
what's the professional judgement
about the ability of Qarists to pay back all the loans
plus the required interest at some stage?
Thank you, Chairman.
Thank you, Councillor Murray.
Owen.
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 1:54:46
So that 9 .38 million pounds,
Owen Sparks - 1:54:48
that is in the existing loan agreements.
So it is additional money to lend them this year
if it's within the existing agreements.
And that is obviously predominantly
to finish off Springwood over the road.
That's what that's predominantly for.
I think we have made provision in the NGFP
for this year's budget in 27 -28
for some debt write off that will inevitably happen.
Again, we are reviewing that on an ongoing basis
and we will review that again in more detail
as part of this year's budget setting.
And that's to do with obviously the completion
of the existing development schemes
and some of the CAFO issues,
but there will be some more off of debt required.
We've made provision for some of it in 27, 28, 28, 29,
but we're reviewing that on an ongoing basis.
Councillor Murray.
So, yeah, I've got a couple of follow -up questions then,
cause I hadn't picked that up,
and that was my weakness in this kind of thing.
So if cabinet was to agree this report,
inherent within the agreement of the report,
is a decision that we would be prepared
to write off quality loans,
because I think O &S might take a different view on that,
because I personally would be in favour
of writing off any of Qolsys loans,
unless that's made with, well, even if,
and if that is the case,
that needs to be made really, really explicit,
because I've read this report a couple of times,
and I might probably have missed it,
but I haven't picked up that within this report,
there's assumptions going forward
that EFDC will write off Qolsys loans,
and if you have made that assumption,
I hope it's reasonable in part one to ask the question.
Obviously, if you say it has to be answered in part two,
I accept that.
What assumption have you made
in terms of the amount of loans
that you're expecting to write off?
Because if you've made an assumption within the budget,
presumably there must be a figure in mind.
Owen Sparks - 1:56:50
I think the actual detailed discussion that would be in a part two session. I think there
will be a separate report coming to members of the governance wise around that and that
will follow in due course but the actual numbers and assumptions is part two discussion.
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 1:57:09
Thank you and Chairman my final point and it's not for me to ask any members in the
that tonight to do something because they're all independent, you know what I mean when
I say independent, independent members, they will make their own decisions about what they
want to propose. But if I was there tonight and that's one of the disadvantages of not
being able to come, at least I'm on line, is I would be saying that yes, we know this
report but we're not happy that built within the report is an assumption that we will be
writing off college loans.
That's certainly something I think ONS should be saying.
I leave that to members present in the chamber.
Thank you, Councillor Murray.
That Owen.
I think just clarity in the report,
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 1:57:54
it's not an assumption to write off the loans in the report.
Owen Sparks - 1:57:56
This is setting out the current financial position
as a quarter one.
So that's more of the full forecast
and the budget looking forward.
It's not directly part of this report.
Okay.
Members, anyone else have a query?
Councillor George.
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 1:58:11
Cllr Mandy George - 1:58:14
Microphone.
Microphone.
I apologise.
Going back to on 6 .1 with the loan to Qualis at 9480,
how much of that is actually going to be put aside
to fix Springbrook Grove?
Because there's been a delay in getting those completed,
plus the amount of money that's been spent already for those properties and
then there's additional millions being spent so how much exactly additional is
going to be getting those properties up to par to be able to be available for
Owen Sparks - 1:58:59
social rent. Thank you. I couldn't give you a breakdown off hand exactly what
that was for. That was the forecast cash flow position when we set the budget
which we think will still be what is required. So that will be used for college to finish
its outstanding developments in this year, but there won't be like an X for that development
and Y for that. It's taken the round of what their cashflow difference was. So we'd have
to look at a breakdown in detail, but it's not quite done in that way. It's their overall
cashflow requirements.
Could you break it down for all the members, please, to see where this money's going and
Cllr Mandy George - 1:59:34
what's been spent on. We can have a look what we can provide you. I appreciate
Owen Sparks - 1:59:38
Cllr Mandy George - 1:59:41
that because that's quite a large amount of money to be spending on top already
the purchase price of all the properties at Springwood. It's not the purchase
price it's to finish the development of those properties. So it's an additional
Owen Sparks - 1:59:53
9480 or is that already been deducted from the 19 point whatever million it
was been spent. It doesn't relate to the actual purchase it's the actual development
cost, they're sort of two separate things. So that is what is required to finish the
actual works, bearing in mind that's from 1st of April, obviously works are still going
on to actually finish those properties. So the actual purchase is a separate item, they're
Cllr Mandy George - 2:00:21
not directly linked. Can you confirm then how much was, just to confirm to myself and
everyone here, how much was the purchase price then for Springwood Grove, all those properties?
Owen Sparks - 2:00:29
Again, that's a part two item from the part two report, so I can't, yeah.
But it's in the report that went to cabinet previously.
Before I go to Councillor Whiskin, I just have a quick question just relating to, as
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 2:00:42
we're near it on the page.
The money that was set aside for the LGR contingency, the 7 .13 million, but also the money that
we put aside in the budget for LGR preparedness,
of that money that hasn't been spent or hasn't
need to be spent, what is our plans with that?
But also, given the fact that this authority,
people here never voted to proceed with LGR,
and the county forced it upon us,
what opportunity do we have to claw back some of that
money from the government because of what
they have done to us?
I don't see why this authority should have to suffer because a handful of people decided
to think it was a good idea without us actually ever having a say.
So I just wondered what we're doing to a, claw back any money that we've spent on it
and b, have we immediately halted all expenditure relating to LGR because of course, I think
a realist can see it's not going to happen by the end of this parliament and we don't
know what's going to happen after the next general election.
The chances are LGR is not going to happen.
So how can we make sure that we immediately stop spending a penny more on it?
So as far as
Owen Sparks - 2:01:58
chlorine resources back from government, there are discussions across the sector at the moment of MHCLG.
You'll know there was nine hundred thousand pounds approved, but again, don't know it's early days for that.
We are looking at LGR work. What is
beneficial from a share services alternative things to take forward and
what we can stop at the moment that works ongoing. As far as reserves
concerned again because it's unclear quite what is going to happen it's early
days and we're also looking at what transformation funding might need to
pump from that transformation activity. Ben and mine have got those budget gaps to close.
So it's early days but we look at all those areas now at the moment and obviously we'll be able to come back at a later date.
What we'd expect with the needs to do the transformation is a sigh of relief that we
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 2:02:44
don't need to spend that money on LGR in one hand,
but I appreciate the expenditure in the transformation too.
So I think it would be very good for members
to have that clarity.
I appreciate this is a moving situation,
but I think it'd be very helpful.
I certainly feel quite informed from county
on the plans, the immediate aftermath plans.
I think it'd be very helpful for residents,
but also for us as members, just to understand
exactly what our immediate thought process is on that.
So that would be great,
and perhaps something for the members, but it's fine.
Cllr Graham Wiskin - 2:03:17
Councillor Whiskin. Thank you chairman I've got a few points on the figures and
it's it's mainly to do with the sort of unders and overs which have been
highlighted. Obviously commercial rents are potentially outside of our control
but that's a worrying trend. £835 ,000 down on the expectations.
Car park income £97 ,000 down perhaps that's reflecting the the
fact that people find it too expensive to park. Maybe we should be reviewing it. I'd
like to see if there's any issues and figures on footfall in our car parks which perhaps
reflect what is actually happening. But the main one I was looking at was the garden waste
surplus, which has been highlighted, which is significant. Perhaps we could have some
detail about the, and there's a note which says that the, you know, this is early days
and all the subscriptions haven't been taken up
and then their partial subscriptions, whatever.
Could we perhaps have some view as to what the end of year
position might be with those figures if it's so glowing,
which is good in some respects, but it's bad in other respects
because some might regard that we've overcharged people.
If we end up making a million pound surplus on that
in the year, which I'm only surmising.
However, whatever surplus we have, I'll say it again,
our roads are in a disgraceful state in terms of weeds growing
out the pavement and outside the gullies.
Surely if we have some surplus, we should be spending that and
doing something for our local residents and making their local
areas look better because I'm firmly in the camp that if
something looks shabby, it gets treated shabbily,
and that will encourage litter and filth and more waste and mess.
And if we are making gains on these areas, let's not just use it to prop up the budget,
let's use it efficiently and do something back for the residents.
Thank you.
Owen, yeah.
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 2:05:22
I think that the forecast set is the year -end forecast.
Owen Sparks - 2:05:26
So again, we're not expecting lots of new people to take up the service at this point
in the year.
I think that the additional surplus really, again, it's looking at it in the context of
the overall budget gap, which I think members will have the opportunity to look at that
as we go through that budget development cycle.
I think that the roads is quite a tricky problem, because again, that is generally the responsibility
of the highways authority.
So again, that is quite complex.
Again, we'll look at all those decisions for members as part of that budget process, and
then obviously you'll debate that as you feel take it forward. Thank you. Any other
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 2:06:07
members? No? Okay on council Whiskin's point I think even more of a reason when we
should encourage residents to plant their plants on the roads where they
live rather than send them letters asking them not to and I think we've all
had a good learning from that. Members? Oh sorry, Councillor Morris. Hi yeah thanks
Cllr Martin Morris - 2:06:26
Chairman I just had a couple of points mate. One was on on Coralis my
Just to confirm my understanding on this,
because Qualis is a wholly owned company,
it may not be up to EFTC to decide
whether to write the loan off or not.
If Qualis becomes unable to pay the interest
and ultimately the capital,
then that will end up being EFTC's problem,
whether it likes it or not,
just because it's a wholly owned company.
So I don't think that's a decision
we're necessarily going to be able to make.
And second question is just slightly more detail
on the commercial properties.
It's quite a bit less than budgeted income.
Is this like a one -off issue or do we expect this to continue in this shortfall in commercial
property income to be a feature going forward?
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 2:07:12
Question 1, yes.
Owen Sparks - 2:07:17
On the commercial income, some of that is due to delays in filling voids and also some
of the negotiations around rent -free periods and as such.
So again, we're working with James and his team
to look at what that ongoing impact is
as part of the budget and that will form part,
again, of those assumptions.
So we're working through that in a bit of detail now.
Thank you.
Councillor Dadd.
Thank you, Chairman.
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 2:07:40
I can come back on the commercial rents
Cllr Mary Dadd - 2:07:43
and I know that from the surveyor's perspective,
the commercial rents are lower at the moment.
Whether that trend is going to continue or not,
I'm not sure.
Thank you. Councillor Lee.
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 2:07:57
Cllr Jeane Lea - 2:07:59
It was just when you were talking about garden waste. We've got trees in Monkswood Avenue
and normally someone comes around and trims them. They're lime trees and at the moment
you can't walk along the pavement because all these branches grown from the ground,
people going up and down with pushchairs, all the lime leaves are smacking children in the face.
Now, they used to be done every year and they're a disgrace at the moment.
Now, I actually pay out for a gardener who cut some down but then filled my bin with
it and then I now can't get the rest of my stuff in my bin.
Now, I want to know who actually is responsible for keeping this cut that is blocking the
pavement.
Is it Highways?
Because I'm sure it's us that normally keeps the tops chopped, which they haven't even
done that now that it's pitch black because you can't see because the street
lights are hidden in the trees. Well you've got a very helpful County
Councillor in Waltham Abbey so I will get on his case. I will happily approach him for you but
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 2:08:57
if you send me the details but I'm pretty sure it's a highways matter and
there is some grey areas sometimes depends whose tree it is I don't know the
details but I'm sure it could be resolved and we shouldn't waste limes
there for gin and tonic. Any other members? Okay right we'll move on then
thank you. Members can I just we're noting the comments as part of this
item of the agenda so this is the noting can I consider that noted by the
committee thank you very much and so item to Councillor Murray did you raise
your hand sorry oh you're on mute you're on mute you're on mute Councillor Murray
I just want to be helpful to my dear friend, Councillor Lee. I always am. We have given
experience in many ways. Since April, EFDC has absolutely no involvement in trees. I
mean, obviously if they're on HRA land, that's a different matter, but on pavements, which
I think is sounded as if it is, since April of this year, EFDC have had no involvement
and it's very much an SSI ways issue.
Thank you, Councillor Murray. There you go. Way more helpful than I was.
Item 12, Overview and Scrutiny Committee Work Programme. Members, this is on pages 79 of
your Agenda Report Pack. Firstly, members, can the committee please note some of the
changes to the Work Programme, which I'll identify with you all now. So firstly, the Homelessness
and Rough Sleeping Strategy, this will be considered by Overview and Scrutiny on the

12 Overview and Scrutiny Committee - Work Programme

17th of November. I know many members wanted to discuss this. This has been moved from
communities to allow consultation pre -cabinet scrutiny. The temporary accommodation policy,
item 5 for communities, which is on pages 81, will now be considered on the 8th of December
before it goes to cabinet. The chair and vice chair's scrutiny meeting also agreed that
the community safety partnership with the fire brigade should attend communities and
an additional meeting has been added on the 9th of March. You should also be aware, and
I know this is very important particularly for members in Chigwell, and thank you for
all the correspondence from members from Chigwell on this matter. You should be aware that Thames
Water were invited to this meeting, but due to operational reasons, they will now attend
the Place Scrutiny Committee on the 3rd of November, which means that TfL will be invited
to a later meeting, I think we'll all agree
that the Thames Water matter is far more important
at the moment, or certainly was when this decision was made
than the urgency to speak to TFL.
I also want to inform members that internally,
Ethnium Forestry Council has debriefed
on the council's response to the situation
relating to Thames Water and those ongoing,
there is ongoing sort of discussions internally.
I would just like also to thank officers who have been liaising with Thames Water in order
to secure this meeting.
The reason it's going to the place committee is it fits, but also I didn't want there to
be any delay in, as soon as we had availability and they confirmed availability, I felt it
was necessary just to secure their attendance.
Does any members, oh, Councillor Sunger, did you have something?
Chairman, I think that's a fantastic hide.
Cllr Darshan Sunger - 2:12:17
I think Jen Gold is actually liaising with Thames Water, but we're going to have Thames
Water here at the Scrutin Committee.
Rather than having them here and then asking questions for them to come back, would it
not be a good idea to perhaps have some questions put together so they have answers when they
come?
So of course for the chairman of the place committee, I think we should adopt the same
approach that we do with TFL, which is where members can submit their questions.
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 2:12:46
Those can be arranged so that you know free people don't ask the same question and we can make the most of
The guests time when they are here. I think that's very very important
Yeah, and that has been agreed by a place committee
So absolutely and I'm sure you'll hear in due course about that and I would encourage members that aren't a member of place to also
Attend and submit questions, which I'm sure will be possible
Members, are there any queries on anything I've said, but also on the work programme
more generally?
Councillor Lucas.
Thank you.
I just wanted to ask a question.
Cllr Jodie Lucas - 2:13:17
I can see 23rd of April, 2027 is marked down for Youth Council.
If I just clarify, that is the correct date.
It's just, unless I'm looking wrong, I think that's a Friday.
We usually have our ONS on a Tuesday.
I just wanted to double cheque that if that is the right date.
Just St. George's Day as well, I think, isn't it?
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 2:13:39
Anyone able to cheque that?
I'll probably be able to cheque that.
Laura's having a cheque, but thank you.
It's probably a bit low, mine 24 -O -12.
Well noted, well noted.
I'm sure that'll be changed, thank you, if that's the case.
Do any other members have anything they wish to discuss
relating to the work programme?
Sorry, Councillor Lee, you had your hand up.
And Councillor Murray.
Can we have scrutiny on highways?
Cllr Jeane Lea - 2:14:06
Is that a possibility?
Because I think they're diabolical.
And also what I'm concerned about,
I know we're having Thames Water come,
but how can we keep building all these hundreds of houses
when the water supply isn't sufficient now?
And as far as the sewage plant goes,
we've got one little one in Waltham Abbey.
and I mean since I've lived in Waltham Abbey we've now got hundreds and
hundreds of houses built with the same little tiny sewage plant which every now
and again just floods all over the place. We're going to hear from Councillor Dadd shortly on
planning matters though if you want to reply specifically on your report.
Cllr Mary Dadd - 2:14:46
Yes at Place Scrutiny I asked the same question about infrastructure and that
will be included in the questions that we're going to raise with Thames Water
in advance. Thank you and Councillor Lucas it's the 13th of April well
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 2:15:02
spotted we all would have been ten days late. So members it is an opportunity if we
wanted to consider any of the matters that Mr. Jeffco raised at the start of the
meeting if anyone would like to raise any of those matters this would be the
right time in the agenda.
Councillor Whiskin.
Sorry, I might have missed the opportunity,
Cllr Graham Wiskin - 2:15:25
but I seem to remember from,
I was not at the last ONS meeting, but the one before,
I believe yourself raised the prospect of putting
koalas specifically on a scrutiny item.
Is that, have I missed it somewhere,
or has it not been agreed to?
This is something that has been discussed,
and I was hoping that we would go discuss this evening.
I did realise before we move on to that,
Councillor Lee, I absolutely think
we should get Essex Highways in
and I would love us to do that.
And obviously, I'm in a position to help hopefully,
make that possible.
I think that the more time that we leave
for the new administration at county
to actually get on and deliver
but also build the relationship with Epping Forest
before they actually come in so they can be helpful.
but I think we're probably at that stage now
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 2:16:17
as we approach, you know, by the time we're looking
at these future meeting dates, we'll be looking
at one year of the new administration,
but 30 % more potholes now have been filled,
which is good news.
But Councillor Whiskin, on your point about QALYST, I agree.
I know Councillor Shaw's already mentioned
that he wants to raise something at this meeting
relating to QALYST, so it might be worth hearing that first,
and then as a committee deciding what the best course
of action would be with regards to scrutiny of QALYST.
So, Councillor Shaw, did you want to raise some of your queries now?
Thank you, Chairman.
Cllr Geoff Shaw - 2:16:53
Hopefully I'll have just more than a minute that I had at the Council meeting.
I have produced a report.
I've been doing a lot of research into QALYs over the last few months.
And I've got to the stage now where I've produced sort of an interim report.
I've had a meeting with Andrew Small and the directors
of QALYST recently and as a result of that I've raised a few more queries and questions
that Andrew said he's going to respond to. So until I get those responses I can't really
finalise the report. But I have got some conclusions already that I'd like to air with everybody
here today. I think we all know that QALYST Living and QALYST Commercial has reported
huge losses every year since it was formed in 2019 -2020. Every year it has made substantial
large losses, amounting last year in the March 31 financial report. The losses were £24 ,620 ,615.
Sorry there, Councillor, can I just stop you? I think the information that you're giving
Jennifer Gould - 2:18:13
Nicola Sayers - 2:18:16
to the committee is outside of the remit of the committee, and even if it was, it would
come under Part 2. The figures that I'm giving you here are from
Companies House, and Companies House data is public information, so everything I've
What here is public information?
It's outside of the remit of overview and scrutiny.
May I just ask, could you just explain to the new member what part two means?
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 2:18:40
Part two means that you're dealing with exempt information, which could be information that
Nicola Sayers - 2:18:45
is commercially sensitive to either Epping or its subsidiaries.
Sorry, how could it be commercially sensitive if it's public information?
Cllr Geoff Shaw - 2:18:52
It's public information in companies' house.
So, if anybody here goes on to company's house and just presses
wireless commercial financial reports, it comes up.
Nicola Sayers - 2:19:05
I understand that, but the point that I'm making is that the
procedurals for overview and scrutiny are for the committee to review
and scrutinise decisions made or actions taken in connexion with
the discharge of any of the council's functions.
and I'm not seeing correlation between discussing quality in that manner at overview and scrutiny
here today with the functions of this committee.
In fairness, we're discussing the work programme and a member has done some research and would
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 2:19:37
like to potentially have something considered to be put onto the work programme, so that's
why Councillor Shaw has in advance asked me to raise this at this point in the meeting.
So can I raise issues that have been reported
Cllr Geoff Shaw - 2:19:52
in cabinet meeting minutes,
cabinet meeting report packs?
Fundamentally it's not on today's agenda.
We're discussing a work programme
Nicola Sayers - 2:20:02
and a member would like to raise some matters
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 2:20:05
relating to quality to be considered
to go on the work programme.
I'm quite prepared as chairman to hear
what those concerns are and see whether or not
they can be made into an item to be considered
for the work programme.
So if Councillor Shaw is deviating from that,
then I appreciate the interference.
But as far as I'm concerned,
there is some matters that Councillor Shaw wishes
to have considered for Ovi and Scrutiny Work Programme.
And as any member can raise such matters,
I would like to hear it.
But of course, if there's any point
where breaching any rules, please inform us.
But as far as I'm concerned,
any matters relating to Eppen Forest District Council
that wish to be considered from a scrutiny perspective
have hardly been raised when we consider the work programme.
If I'm mistaken, please tell me.
Okay.
Did you want to come in then?
If I may.
I think as part of this agenda item,
Laura Kirman - 2:20:58
the details of what would be included in the work programme
isn't heard or voiced in the meeting.
It tends to be a more generic approach,
such as Councillors Lee would like to discuss highways.
So Councillor Shaw may want to discuss
qualities and some particular aspects of it, but it doesn't need to go into the details.
What will then happen is that can be submitted. You could submit it in writing to the chairman
for consideration. There is a process that needs to be done for things to go into the
work programme and that would normally be discussed at the joint chairs meeting. This
is the same for members of the public and I know that the chairman actually spoke at
of council encouraging that.
So any member can approach the chairman
to have anything included to be considered
to be included in the work programme.
So you have actually, I think, voice that you want
and actually sort of Councillor Whiskin,
something concerning Corliss to be put in the work programme.
If you can summarise that without going into the detail,
the detail you're providing is what would be discussed
in the meeting.
So you need to, I think you're asking for something
to be put in the programme.
Councillor Shaw, please continue.
Continue?
Yeah, thank you.
Okay.
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 2:22:14
It's items related to be considered for the work programme.
Fine.
Cllr Geoff Shaw - 2:22:19
If I can first of all
advise the councillors here that Qalis was set up
to develop, Qalis was set up to develop
a number of projects, housing,
a multi -storey car park, leisure centre and some industrial units in Waltham Abbey.
They are four specialist sectors of the construction and development industry.
Housing is carried out by the likes of Wimpy and Slough, the States, would do industrial
units and Cairn and Trach has to do multi -storey car parks.
Now the actual shareholders agreement sets out very clearly that...
Councillor Shaw, sorry just to interrupt there, can I ask you to tell the Chairman what it
Nicola Sayers - 2:23:04
that you would like to bring to another meeting
of overview and scrutiny succinctly and.
I'm sorry, sorry, would you respect I'm chairing this meeting
and I'm happy with the level of detail.
There is no time limit on what members can and can't say.
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 2:23:19
So I'm very happy for Councillor Shaw to explain
what he would like to have on the work programme.
There is no rules as far as I'm concerned
as to how long a member can or cannot speak.
And actually, I just think by the way,
from a public perception point,
to continue to interrupt a member
when they're trying to raise something like this,
I think looks dreadful on this authority.
So can I just ask people to let Councillor Shaw
explain what he'd like to see on the work programme.
He's a new member of this authority.
Then once it's been explained,
it's for us to then digest the information
and have it considered for the work programme.
I'm not gonna accept a chairman of this committee,
a member, any member can raise any point
as far as I'm concerned,
if they want to have it raised
to be considered for the work programme.
If that can be summed up in 10 seconds, brilliant.
and if it takes two minutes, it takes two minutes.
I will not have a member interrupted now twice
when they are trying to raise something
to go on the work programme.
That is not how councils work,
that is not how scrutiny works.
So, Councillor Shaw, please continue.
But be aware of the time.
Be aware of the time.
If you could inform us what you would like on.
Councillor Shaw, if you could let us know
what you'd like to be considered on the work programme.
So you've mentioned some projects.
Is it projects you would like considered?
Is it overall governance?
Cllr Geoff Shaw - 2:24:35
It's the overall management and direction of QALIS.
It has lost a fortune every year.
The shareholders agreement was very clear that those responsible should have been experienced
and experienced and qualified in the businesses that they were going to carry out.
The cabinet and the Epping Forest District Council officers at the time
had absolutely no experience whatsoever of the types of development that they were going to carry out.
That is the offices and the cabinet members.
They appointed 17 directors for Qalis over the period, and none of them was highly qualified in the business.
And that was the fundamental reason why Qalis has lost so much money,
because the cabinet members who have been monitoring QALIS had no
qualifications and no understanding of the business that they were undertaking.
That was the most fundamental reason for the losses. So Councillor Shaw I just
want to cheque I've got this right so you would like to be considered for the work
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 2:25:48
programme, the qualifications of people that have been in charge of QALYST and whether
or not that's to an acceptable standard, you would like to be considered on the work programme
the significance of the financial losses and for this committee to scrutinise decision -making
behind that? And from your earlier remarks relating to specific projects and whether
or not they have been delivered adequately, would that be a fair summary?
Yes, it would.
In addition to that, I believe the cabinet,
Cllr Geoff Shaw - 2:26:24
one, failed in their responsibility
to appoint the appropriate people.
This is ridiculous.
It is not ridiculous, it is fact.
Councillor Shaw, thank you.
Point of order, Councillor Whitbread.
Point of order, we were told very clearly
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 2:26:36
the process should be a short summary
of what Councillor Shaw wants to bring forward
to a new overview and scrutiny meeting.
Cllr Chris Whitbread - 2:26:41
He is now going outside of that agreement
and making a mockery of this committee
in that it should be a proper agenda item, not a half -baked report coming to this committee
for proper consideration.
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 2:26:59
There is also a process called a PIC form which is available in the constitution that
Laura Kirman - 2:27:02
can be fully completed and that is where, if you wish, you could put the details of
what you're in and then the Vice -Chairman and Chairman can consider that for inclusion
in the work programme.
Thank you and can I just say that no report has been presented to this committee and my
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 2:27:17
toes are curling at how a member, a new member of this authority wants to raise some matters
to be considered on the work programme. They have been interrupted on numerous occasions.
If we ever wonder why the public look at this place sometimes and laugh, it is because what's
just happened. I'm highly embarrassed, highly embarrassed and I think this needs to be reviewed.
I'm very disappointed actually but Councillor Shaw, thank you for your storey and by the
to any other member of this committee if you ever want to raise something to go
on the work programme for as long as I'm in this chair you will always be able to
raise it in full and uninterrupted that is what we are elected to do and that's
the end of the matter thank you council sure can I ask a question now please
Cllr Geoff Shaw - 2:28:02
chairman so shall I present my report to the 50 plus councillors for the next
council for council meetings that's probably something to be discussed
outside of the committee what you do with your report is up to you but as far as the
work programme is concerned the three matters that you've raised will be considered to be
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 2:28:20
added on to the work programme. What you do with your own work is probably beyond the
remit of the proceedings.
Cllr Geoff Shaw - 2:28:25
So my report, how do I present it to the council then? Can I make a presentation to the full
council meeting which is in I think about three or four weeks' time?
I don't know what's funny.
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 2:28:35
Laura Kirman - 2:28:37
I would suggest that you went to the leader of your party who will refer to the constitution
and if you have any queries you write to the monitoring officer and know you'd best approach
that.
Sorry, could you?
Oh, sorry, Councillor Murray.
Sorry, Lauren, I can't hear that properly.
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 2:28:51
Councillor Short, I will provide you with some advice on the best thing to do with your
research.
I'm sure members will be interested to see it.
Councillor Murray.
Thank you, Chairman. And I'm deliberately going to be quite slow in what I say because
Cllr Stephen Murray - 2:29:07
I need to think about my words carefully. You're absolutely right, Chairman, what we've
just witnessed. And I'm kind of seeing it as a member of the public because I'm not
there in present, hasn't been a pretty picture and doesn't do EFDC credit. I've known Mr
I think he was right to stay firm.
a new member was attempting to explain
why he wanted this item on the work programme.
And I have to say that in terms of the earlier comments
from the member of the public that we had,
and now that we've had through Councillor Shaw,
I certainly feel that this needs to be on the work programme
and would support that 100%.
And in terms of the report,
I mean, I obviously don't know what the report
is containing and its legal status and so on. But if there's nothing to prevent it from
being circulated to all members, that's what you do as a member. I mean, I circulate reports
on far more contentious issues. I think the 40th anniversary of the nature of the serif
is the last one I circulated. But there is a call Councillor email address, Councillor
I'm sure just call councillors
and I'm sure we will all read it with interest,
but I would take some advice from offices
and some advice from your leader about circulating that,
but that would be the easiest way
of getting it to all members.
If I could just go back to two other items
on the work programme, please.
And my computer is just,
the agenda has just kind of come up again.
The agenda item that you talked about
is regards homelessness and the rough sleeping strategy.
Is that going to cover any of the initiatives
that the council is looking to improve homelessness provision?
So that would be one question if I could have an answer to,
and then I just want to say a couple of things
on James Walkjot, Councillor McIver.
Thank you, Councillor Murray. Jen? The short answer is yes, Councillor Murray, it will.
Jennifer Gould - 2:31:49
It will set the direction of travel for how we are going to tackle the sort of increasing
demand and the trajectory of homelessness within the district.
Okay, lovely, thank you. And then I just wanted to say a couple of things on Thames Water.
And I apologise to you, Chairman, I've done it the wrong way. But I worked through the
officers to make sure that we were going to have a group on the item on this. So I'm
really pleased that it's going to be there. I will just make one initial comment that
I made a place. Our officers on the very first day as it impacted Loughton, which was really
that Sunday evening, Monday morning, I think it had been an issue in St. Ticwell at least
the day or maybe even 48 hours earlier than that.
But I have to say the communication with our offices
from that very early stage on that Monday morning
was nothing but first class.
I can confirm that we had a long discussion at place
about how this would kind of be handled
and Councillor Parsons gave the undertaking
that he would handle it in the same manner
as he had handled the TFL scrutiny last year,
which was in an excellent manner reorganised
with the questions and the involvement
of all members are effective.
But I will just say this again, chairman,
and I probably won't make a habit of it,
but I did just want to thank you for remaining true
among the previous discussion.
Cause I think a new member won't perhaps always get it right
but we need to make sure a new member has an opportunity
to their concerns.
So thank you.
Thank you, Councillor Murray.
Councillor Lucas.
Thank you, Chairman.
Two points if I may.
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 2:33:43
Cllr Jodie Lucas - 2:33:45
Just firstly on what Councillor Murray just mentioned
and commending you for staying firm.
And I make you right, you are chairman of this committee.
But I would also just like to defend the head of legal
and deputy monitor officer
because I work in a compliance position myself
and I know how uncomfortable it can be
when you don't know what's about to come out
somebody else's mouth.
So she's just trying to protect us as a committee
and you as chairman.
So I would like there to not be any animosity between you
because I think that is completely fair in her position.
And I, okay, it might look uncomfortable
from a public perspective perception,
but I think it was absolutely right.
Just in case there was gonna be something
that was of commercial sensitivity,
because we don't, none of us want to be in a position
of that, including Councillor Shaw,
It's probably for his protection as much as anybody else's.
So thank you, and I'm pleased that we got through it,
and I'm pleased that the items that you wish to be discussed
are going to be discussed.
And moving on from that, my item that I mentioned earlier
on in the meeting was AI.
And I just wondered if it would be worth,
I don't know how it could be addressed as an item,
or whether it needs to be a separate item,
or whether it just sits under the KPIs as something that,
a way that is just a way of working now,
but possibly the use of AI across the council
to be scrutinised.
Thank you, Councillor Lucas.
I think something along the lines of the council's response
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 2:35:12
to the increased use of AI, words to that effect.
I agree, I think it's clearly,
as we've seen in other items in this report,
it's an impact and it can be an opportunity
as well as an impact.
So I definitely think that's worth us having on there.
So from what I've got so far, members,
I've got highways,
Qualis item, including some of Councillor Shaw's
specific points and Councillor Lucas's AI suggestion.
Councillor Shaw.
Thank you, Chairman.
I don't know about the correct procedures again.
Cllr Geoff Shaw - 2:35:46
Can I raise a scrutiny correct question
on Springwood Grove?
Specifically.
Specifically Springwood Grove?
Yes.
Springwood Grove I think has got 40 odd houses, dwellings, and I think it's got 18 car parking
places and there are no on -street parking places.
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 2:36:09
Cllr Geoff Shaw - 2:36:12
That may be quite niche for this committee, however I will take the suggestion for the
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 2:36:14
Royal Crore, it might be able to be included in a slightly bigger piece, it might also
be suitable for one of the smaller scrutiny committees like Place for example, so I will
take the suggestion.
Jennifer Gould - 2:36:26
It's to do with planning, Councillor Shaw, so I'm quite happy to talk with you. I'll
give you a call about that and talk you through why that's the case, but it's to do with planning.
Cllr Geoff Shaw - 2:36:37
Yes, I understand it's a planning issue. I think the planners told the architects to
have a low amount of car parking provision, but the question is, if it's going to be social
housing now, is it suitable for social housing? Because if somebody is out of work and they
can't have a car, there's a mobility question there for people on social housing.
Jennifer Gould - 2:37:06
Thank you, Chairman. Just to answer your question briefly, when we look at temporary accommodation
and permanent social housing, there is a suitability code of practise that we have to follow and
everyone will be looked at on their own merits.
So for example, if we are trying to house somebody
who is reliant on a mobility vehicle, for example,
and they have difficulty walking
and need a car parking space,
and we're trying to offer them something without one,
then that wouldn't be suitable and we wouldn't offer it.
It's also worth saying though,
that we operate a system of choice -based lettings.
So people bid for properties, there's no money exchange,
they express interest in a property
that they wish to be considered for.
So it's clearly advertised what comes with that property,
whether it's parking or not, for example,
and only people that are wanting to put their expressions
of interest in for those properties will do so.
Thank you.
And can I also request as we move on from this item
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 2:38:03
that perhaps Laura or somebody from democratic services
speaks to Councillor Shaw outside of the meeting
to get the detail behind what specific matters
in QALYIS are of priority for him
so that can be filtered into the work programme.
Councillor Lee.
Cllr Jeane Lea - 2:38:21
Just you saying about that, I understood that in town
that we didn't have to supply parking spaces.
The government says that, oh, it's not needed.
Cause I argue it for Walter Mabry
because we've got no public service.
But am I wrong on that?
But I thought that's what the government said
that if you live in the town, you don't have to have
parking spaces.
I think there's a few other,
we have got an expert over here,
My understanding, and I might be proven wrong in a minute,
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 2:38:47
is that there is Essex Design Guide,
you've got neighbourhood plans,
you've got different towns are different,
Onga's very different, Wolf Mabie,
there are different parameters,
but yeah, some clever person thought that
because you live in the centre of a town,
you don't drive once.
Councillor Dadd, am I wrong?
Cllr Mary Dadd - 2:39:03
I was going to say it is a planning matter
and if a planning decision has been made,
as far as I understand it,
the local plan has a starting point
of the Essex Design Guide, the Essex Parking Standards, which were revised in 2025. Anything
less than the minimum has to be in the appropriate area, but this is not really suitable for
this particular committee.
In Onger, in two years' time, you'll need a helipad because of the traffic. We'll need
helicopters.
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 2:39:32
Right, so members, we're going to move on, but thank you for those items. We will get
those filtered into the Work Programme. You'll see those on your agendas in due course.

13 Chairmen to Report on their Scrutiny Committee Business

Item 13 is the Chair's reports on the various scrutiny committee businesses.
So the Chairman of the Communities Committee is not here this evening, but will provide
an update at the next meeting.
We have Councillor Parsons has sent his apologies this evening, but Councillor Morris will be
providing an update on Place Committee.
So may I ask you for a brief update?
Yes, sure.
Thank you.
Thank you, Chairman.
Cllr Martin Morris - 2:40:08
So since the last meeting of ONS,
there have been two meetings of place scrutiny.
On the 30th of June, we met and elected the vice chairman.
It's me.
We received updates from TVS on waste operation
and from quarrels on grounds maintenance,
both of which seem to have seen improved performance
as recognised by our residents.
We also received a briefing on section 62A designation.
This impacts the EFTs influence
over major planning applications.
The committee requested further updates at each meeting.
The last meeting of place was on the 1st of September.
The first item we did look at was the section 62A update,
and we were happy to see a lot of work being carried out
with the aim of removing designation as quickly as possible.
Members raised several points which were passed on
for consideration.
The final item looked at was community asset management
policy which will enable asset transfers
for community benefit where there is no commercial value
or utility to EFDC.
There's a significant amount of discussion
and the meeting approved the delivery of this report
to cabinet pending amendments which will be discussed
with responsible cabinet member.
Looking forward, Thames Water will be attending
play scrutiny on the 3rd of November
and given recent problems there is a great deal of interest
in this topic.
We'll be arranging for questions to be provided
in advance of the meeting so that we can ensure
or a coordinated approach and avoid duplication.
This will allow us to focus on obtaining relevant
and pertinent information from Thames water.
Thank you very much, Councillor Morris.
Any comments from members on place?
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 2:41:48
Oh, Councillor Murray, sorry.
Yes, thank you, Chairman.
There is one important item
Cllr Stephen Murray - 2:41:57
because I seem to be getting contradictory promotion.
I attended a place on the 1st of September again online and took considerable interest
in the community assets management policy, which I generally agree with.
I specifically asked the question at that meeting, did that mean that EFDC were necessarily
going to directly approach parish councils or other organisations to see whether they might
want to take responsibility for land holding and I was told no. And then I think a day later,
or two days later, I got a copy of the town council agenda for the Recreation Committee,
which I serve on, that has a Pacific item on, and I won't, it's in public, but I won't
deny it goes through what the areas of land were, but they were quite considerable pieces,
saying that the EOTC had approached them, saying that we consider whether we might want to
take these over. So I'm just getting very mixed information, unless it's a question on the new
Maybe we haven't been formed the approach,
but maybe there was an informal discussion.
So it may just be a question of nuance,
but the place I was definitely told here at Densing
would not be approaching.
And then as I said,
Chief D 'Andrea through black and white,
everyone on our agenda as a parish committee,
would we consider entering into some kind of discussion
about the transfer of these pieces of land?
So it's gotta be one or the other, hasn't it?
Well, Councillor Murray, let's try and help. Jen?
Jennifer Gould - 2:43:51
Thank you, Chairman. I think there was a local council's liaison committee recently, and
it was on the agenda, and that is probably where town and parish councils got to hear
about the strategy that's being brought forward, and therefore they have then probably put
it on their agenda. To my knowledge we're not going out and requesting but
Councillor Whitburn might want to come in.
Cllr Holly Whitbread - 2:44:21
Thank you and thanks again. I think some Lauter members also asked that some
specific land was considered which is why it might be on the agenda but I
haven't seen that agenda but we're not going out and encouraging people
although we have informed people of the policy which won't be at cabinet on
Monday it will be the following month subject to some changes and discussions
with Councillor and Dad and also perhaps a slight reframing in light of recent
news around local government reorganisation. Thank you.
Thank you Chairman and just to clarify one of the pieces of land is just a green and I would be more than happy for the town council to, I mean other members, we've got 22 members so I'm just one,
would be more than I as one would be more than the town council took it over because
that would guarantee its future in perpetuity. Thank you Councillor Murray.
So we'll move now on to our previous meeting we elected Councillor Dadd to
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 2:45:19
chair a task and finish panel and so Councillor Dadd could you give us a brief
update on the progress you've made so far. Thank You Chairman yes we've had we
Cllr Mary Dadd - 2:45:28
We have an excellent task and finish panel with very high
attendance at the first two meetings.
And I confirm that our role is in, if I can say it,
investigative and advisory.
The panel will produce a report and recommendations
in due course.
We started by examining existing planning policies,
planning policy guidance notes and studies relating to the
Greenbelt and the best and most versatile land,
which actually have separate planning policies,
but in EFDC, the BMV land is in Greenbelt,
which adds an extra dimension.
It was agreed that the desired outcomes should,
A, improve understanding of Greenbelt issues
and best of most versatile land, BMV land,
B, strengthen decision -making,
C, identify opportunities for further planning guidance,
supplementary policies or additional policies at the
review stage of the local plan.
And since requesting the set up of this panel,
food security has been in the news,
including more recently due to concerns of the poor harvest
and the prolonged drought.
So it's a very timely piece of work.
We had hoped that other local authorities had done quite a lot
of work in advance of our doing so,
but we have not found anything yet.
The panel has already started assessing relevant recent
government documents which have included the food security
report which was actually published in 2024,
a ministerial statement on solar and protecting our food security
on BMV land which was produced on the 15th of May, 2024.
But this year, very opportunity, land use framework came out
late spring 2026, and predictive land classification 2026,
which is going to replace, I think it was 2019,
agricultural land classification.
That list is not exhaustive, and we'll also be looking at case
studies and planning appeals and documents from organisations
such as the NFU and CPRE to ensure we have a balanced
approach. We've also, thanks to our ICT department and planning
department, we now have access to a GIS map with various layers
which we're adding to. And I'm sorry, I've got something
oh yes, and that is actually on our action log.
We also need to understand the competing uses of housing,
solar farms, et cetera, on our food producing land.
But our recommendations, we're hoping that our recommendations
will be supported by hard evidence.
And I'd like to thank the many officers for their input,
and particularly the planning department.
And also we've engaged with our climate change officer,
as well as the input from so many councillors
for the, on this subject.
And I know it is of great concern to many of us.
In addition, I think it's the LGA, but I'm not sure.
There is a virtual event on land use framework,
which is based for local government and planners,
which is 24th September, which some of us are attending.
And more recently, there's been something on the new MPPF,
which doesn't quite go as far as we would have liked.
But thank you very much for all the support you're giving us.
Well, and thank you very much, Councillor Ladd,
for all the work that you're doing,
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 2:49:33
because we're all so invested in the problems,
but not everyone's able to invest the time
in trying to find some solutions
or at least explanation to some of the things
that don't make sense.
So thank you sincerely from the committee
for all the work you and your team are doing
on the task and finish.
Members, we'll now move on to item 15,
which is the cabinet business, pages 85 to 92.
The full plan is shown on pages 85 to 92,

14 Cabinet Business

and this details the plan decisions for cabinets.
Are there any queries or questions
on the cabinet forward plan?
No.
Okay.
Then we'll, oh, Councillor Sipatero.
Sorry Chairman, I was just waiting if there was any comments,
Cllr Smruti Patel - 2:50:18
I just wanted to add, it might not be the right time,
but I just want to remind the members,
I don't know about the housing inspection.
Come on in.
Tell us everything.
I thought I'd put it in the cabinet business.
So as everyone knows that we're currently undergoing
the housing inspection at the FDC.
And I'd just like to remind members
is that on the 10th of September at 6 .30 in the evening,
we've got the members briefing,
which is a Teams online one.
So easy one to come and join in for.
But as you know, we've got the consumer standards
related inspection at the moment undergoing.
So as many members can attend, they'll be really good
because you may be picked to ask a question, I don't know.
We don't know yet.
I'm undergoing my own training for that.
So, and also I believe there will be a date
when the overview and scrutiny as we know is amazing
because we've got loads of question and answers
we deal with and we actually scrutinise quite well at EFDC.
So that's gonna be something that will be watched
by the inspectors as well in how we do it
when housing item comes up and how we scrutinise.
So that's just the top line of whatever is going on
at the moment in housing.
Thank you.
Thank you very much.
Any other members of the cabinet wish to say anything
on this item?
Councillor Murray. Yes, thank you, Chairman. In the spirit of
being helpful, can I just remind members that Dawn Harrison sent out an email at 1742 yesterday
giving us the link for Thursday's trading. We have had it a number of times, but the
There is just one question then.
Awarded the estates cleaning contract on page 86.
As soon as I saw the word estates,
I saw housing estates,
and then it read as if it's probably things
like the civic building,
and it's got the town reed depot and ongoing toilets.
But what it has got is Oakwood Hill.
I think they probably mean by that the Oakwood Hill depot.
But just for the sake of clarification,
let's put the Oakwood Hill depot,
because if you ride Oakwood Hill,
I'm thinking of 500 houses on the Oakwood Hill estate,
which I don't think that's what it's referencing.
So I think in the very first page, page 86,
that should mean Oakwood Hill get done.
But far more important is the onga toilets, but anyway.
You are absolutely right, Councillor Murray,
we'll get that amended.
Jennifer Gould - 2:52:56
Councillor Murray, that will be amended,
don't know if you heard that.
Cllr Jaymey McIvor - 2:53:00
Brilliant, okay members, can all those comments be noted from this item?
Yep, okay, so item 16 is exclusion of public and press.

15 Exclusion of Public and Press

There are no reports that require the exclusion of the public and the press, so therefore
I close the meeting at 9 .53.
Thank you all for your contributions and have a safe journey home.
Thank you.
Cllr Clive Amos
District councillor for Theydon Bois with Passingford ward
Liberal Democrats
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Cllr Rose Brookes
District councillor for Buckhurst Hill East and Whitebridge ward
Loughton Residents Association
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Cllr Mary Dadd
District councillor for Ongar ward
Conservative Party
View profile Cllr Mary Dadd
Cllr Mandy George
District councillor for Epping West and Rural ward
Liberal Democrats
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Jennifer Gould
Strategic Director - Chief Operating Officer
Epping Forest District Council
View profile Jennifer Gould
Laura Kirman
Democratic Services Officer
Epping Forest District Council
View profile Laura Kirman
Cllr Jeane Lea
District councillor for Waltham Abbey North ward
Conservative Party
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Cllr Jodie Lucas
District councillor for Waltham Abbey West ward
Conservative Party
View profile Cllr Jodie Lucas
Paula Maginnis
Service Director - Corporate Services
Epping Forest District Council
View profile Paula Maginnis
Cllr Craig McCann
District councillor for Chigwell with Lambourne ward
Conservative Party
View profile Cllr Craig McCann
Cllr Jaymey McIvor
District councillor for Ongar ward
Reform UK
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Cllr Karen McIvor
District councillor for Rural East ward
Reform UK
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Cllr Louise Mead
District councillor for Loughton Fairmead ward
Loughton Residents Association
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Cllr Martin Morris
District councillor for Waltham Abbey North ward
Labour Party
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Cllr Stephen Murray
District councillor for Loughton Roding ward
Independent
View profile Cllr Stephen Murray
Cllr Smruti Patel
District councillor for Buckhurst Hill West ward
Conservative Party
View profile Cllr Smruti Patel
Nicola Sayers
Head of Legal
Epping Forest District Council
View profile Nicola Sayers
Cllr Geoff Shaw
District councillor for Theydon Bois with Passingford ward
Reform UK
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Owen Sparks
Interim Strategic Director / S151 Officer
Epping Forest District Council
View profile Owen Sparks
Cllr Darshan Sunger
District councillor for Chigwell with Lambourne ward
Conservative Party
View profile Cllr Darshan Sunger
Mandy Thompson
Service Director - Regulatory Services
Epping Forest District Council
View profile Mandy Thompson
James Warwick
Service Director - Contracts Partnerships and Procurement
Epping Forest District Council
View profile James Warwick
Cllr Chris Whitbread
District councillor for Roydon and Lower Nazeing ward
Conservative Party
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Cllr Holly Whitbread
District councillor for Epping West and Rural ward
Conservative Party
View profile Cllr Holly Whitbread
Cllr Graham Wiskin
District councillor for Loughton St John's ward
Loughton Residents Association
View profile Cllr Graham Wiskin