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Licensing Sub Committee
Tuesday, 6th October 2026 at 10:15am

 
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  1. Cllr Richard Morgan
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  1. Peter Jones
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  5. Cllr James Small
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  7. Cllr James Small
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  11. Cllr Barbara Cohen
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  17. Cllr Barbara Cohen
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  19. Cllr Barbara Cohen
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  21. Cllr Richard Morgan
  22. Cllr Barbara Cohen
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  30. Charlotte Baker
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  33. David King
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  37. Cllr James Small
  38. Peter Jones
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  40. Peter Jones
  41. Cllr Barbara Cohen
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  46. Cllr Richard Morgan
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Cllr Richard Morgan - 0:00:05
In webcasting introduction, I'd like to remind everyone that this meeting will be

1 Webcasting Introduction

filmed live or recorded and loaded to the internet and will be capable of repeated viewing.
Therefore, by saying this meeting you are consented to being filmed and possibly used
for these events and so on and so on. If any public speakers on the AS team do not wish to leave,
have their image captured. I should ensure video is actually through the meeting is turned off.
That's it, all the audio.
Members, I'm trying to turn off the microphones.
Is that what you said? Can we actually actually...
We're doing this one.
Yeah, yeah.
This one, we're going...
Correct.
Yeah.
I have an apology for absence.
We don't have any other things to do.
Your apology is fine.
Are there any death, rape or interest?
Anybody there?

2 Apologies for Absence

3 Declarations of Interest

4 Procedure for the Conduct of Business

I just want to follow the procedure of conduct of business pages 3 to 9 on the agenda.
So we'll go on to item five.
So we do exclude the public and press, don't we?

5 Exclusion of Public and Press

So the public and press are through from this item.

5 Exclusion of Public and Press

Cllr Richard Morgan - 0:02:06
We move on to item 6, which is a HACNA -CARE driver's licence, pages 10 to 21.
Sorry, Steve.

8 Application for Premises Licence - Premier, Chigwell

Welcome to our licencing meeting. We're here to consider application for a licence,
That's it.
For a premises licence at 783 Trigga Road, Trigga Hall.
And we've got Peter Jones who is a licencing officer to put the case to the council.
And then what we'll do to start with is you'll put your application, we'll ask you questions
and then we've got the objectors here, they'll ask questions, just questions then, and then
they'll put their reasons for objecting to it and then you can ask them questions.
We should ask questions as well.
We will ask the
Peter Jones to put the
application, please.
The meeting is recorded, by the way.
It can be used at later times.
Thank you, Chair.
We are here today for a decision on an application.
Peter Jones - 0:03:50
for a premises licence made by Yuba Prien and Co.
for a new licence at 783 Chigwell Road.
The application is for the sale of alcohol
for consumption off the premises,
6 a .m. to 11 p .m. Monday to Sunday,
and the application specifies the same opening hours.
The application was received on the 10th of August, 2026,
and the operating schedule within sets out the conditions
that would be attached to the licence if granted.
All responsible authorities received a copy of the application.
It was advertised at the premises and in a local newspaper as required.
A copy of the notice and newspaper advert are also attached to the report.
The authority received 10 valid representations from residents and the resident association
and they relate to all four of the licence and objectives.
Chair, I would also like to just bring to your attention the supplementary report that
came in most recently over the weekend.
There are comments and conditions put forward
from one of the objectors, Mr Newman,
just to make you aware these conditions
can only be attached by yourselves,
and you are reminded that any conditions
should be appropriate, proportionate, and enforceable.
They should also relate to the licence of activities
as the premises could technically open
without the sale of alcohol.
Thank you, Chair.
Cllr Richard Morgan - 0:05:13
No, I am Jill Sherratt. Claire is my right -hand girl.
Public Speaker - 0:05:19
So have you put the application?
Yes. Thank you, Chair. I am Jill Sherratt from Licencing Matters.
I am going to pronounce his name once and then I am going to ask if you don't mind if I call him Raj after that.
So it's Uvaraja Rathinaraj, known as Raj to me,
and he's your applicant today,
although it's in a company name.
He is an extremely experienced operator.
He has another convenience news agent
that sells alcohol in greys.
He's had that since 2006, so it's 20 years.
He has had no problems whatsoever there.
So his experience gives him a clear understanding
of the responsibilities that you are looking for when selling alcohol
and he intends to bring the same standards to this premises.
This is a family business.
He is looking to the future for his son,
who's at university, but will run it with him.
He helps him run the business while he's back at weekends and holidays.
And they're looking to the future, as I say.
His son has completed the personal licence with licencing matters.
So the intention here is to create a sustainable family business for the future
and I will explain a bit more about that in a second.
I think the point here is that he is a very safe pair of hands.
You are not dealing with anybody who is new to this.
So the application, as you know, is from 6 to 11 for alcohol, but also opening.
Unfortunately, we have to put opening hours on the premises licence, although businesses
are planning aside, they are entitled to open 24 hours if they like without reference to
alcohol but we are applying here for 6 to 11.
The premises has a premises licence at the moment.
It is currently operating as a chicken restaurant called Chick across which you will have seen
all those photographs.
That is owned by Raj and it is a late licence for late night refreshment for home delivery.
until half 11, sorry, half 12 Monday to Saturday and 12 on a Sunday.
Unfortunately, that business, which is a restaurant and deliveries, is not viable.
It's struggling and Raj needs to do something.
Otherwise, it will close.
Given his current experience, he's looked to the thing that he knows well
and has decided to turn it into a convenience store.
Now, in doing that, his other store is independent.
It's not partnered with anybody.
Whereas in looking at this particular venture,
he wants it to be a professional outfit.
And that is why he has approached Premier.
And I'm sure you'll be aware of all the different brands
that are out there,
Londis, Premier, Costco, Tesco, Morrisons.
Retailers like Raj have the choice of who they want to partner with,
depending on their needs and the area.
And it's Premier that he's partnering with here.
Now, that's significant because you're not only getting Raj
as your responsible operator,
but you're also getting Premier as well.
The partnership between a retailer and the symbol group
is that the symbol group, the franchise support them
in terms of legal, licencing matters, work with Premier.
We're there to provide anything that he needs.
So you've got two layers of support to make sure that the licencing objectives are upheld here.
Now, in terms of how serious he is, he's investing £120 ,000 in the shop fit alone.
So an awful lot of money.
And then £70 ,000 additional to that will go to the stock.
It's going to be a modern local facility.
It's going to provide a wide range of convenience goods and services.
I know you know what a convenience store is.
Alcohol is not the focus of this business.
It's part of it.
It's usually about 10 to 15 percent of the broader offering.
But obviously also these days we send packages, we pay bills.
There'll be a fresh bread making, which we've talked about this morning.
There's going to be a lot going on here that will benefit the local residents.
In terms of equipment and procedures, there is a comment made about consultation with
local people and speaking with them. That is a decision we make at Licencing Matters.
That is our decision. We choose whether we do it or not. It is quite difficult when it
comes to residents. They are already consulted as part of the process and we decide whether
we go further than that. Usually it is our view that we let the process do its thing
and that is why we end up here. If you wanted to ask about it, you can. It is not a requirement.
we assess it professionally ourselves.
And we put this application in and we put all of the what we know
to be the proportionate
policies and procedures.
We volunteer conditions and you'll see you'll have seen those.
So you've got CCTV, a very detailed condition.
It's got to be returned for 31 days.
You've got staff training.
That Raj is going to be using an e -learning training system
that I can explain to you if you want more detail on that.
He'll have an incident register, refusals register that will challenge 25, which you
know is the national standard for the age verification, acceptable identification until
prompts are all going to be part of this, the procedure that is in the background, making
sure that the licencing objectives are upheld and they've been reflected by conditions that
have volunteered within the application.
In terms of staffing, Raj, the other premises that he has runs itself, his wife runs that
with a member of staff. He intends to work at this premises with his son to get it up
and running. He will be recruiting local people. He thinks around about two to three part -time,
maybe full -time members of staff. So this business will have his direct involvement
and management oversight, which I know will be something
that you'll be glad to hear.
So that's the application, that's the background.
It's really quite simple from the point of view of it being
just for off sales of alcohol.
It's got all the conditions there, and I just want to move
on to the representations.
Consultation, obviously you've 10 authorities that look
at whether they've got concerns about an application,
they are your experts.
They look after each piece of the jigsaw,
10 of them in total, and not one of them considers the hours
that we've applied for six to 11 as a risk
to the licencing objectives.
And I'll be saying more about that.
That is a significant point today.
So you're here to deal with the representations.
And what I want to do,
because we've had conversations outside before,
I don't think people are suggesting
they don't want this business to be a success.
I think it's more about the hours,
in particular and the way that it is going to operate.
So what I have done is I have picked apart the concerns
and I will deal with them one by one.
So we have got deliveries from the supplier, first of all.
Deliveries from, I will say, car parking I won't deal with
because it is not relevant to this committee.
Planning isn't relevant to this committee.
Obviously, whatever has gone on with planning before
is not a matter for you today.
The only job that you have, which you know,
will the licencing objectives be upheld?
And that is what I'm going to deal with directly.
So you've got deliveries from Premier, and we're quite happy.
And I know that Mr Newman over here has proposed some conditions,
and I'm quite happy to say which ones we're happy to accept,
and if not, why not?
So the deliveries is not a problem.
The deliveries from Premier will be between 7am and 5pm during the day.
There's no particular control over that.
It can be any time between those times.
But we're quite happy because we appreciate that outside of those times,
it might be a bit of a disruption.
So we're quite happy for a condition to be applied there.
In terms of, I'll come back to the deliveries to customers.
There's mention of litter.
There's a condition there that the outside will be, you know,
swept or whatever the wording is, right up to the pavement.
All I would say to that is it is not Raj's or anybody's responsibility to keep clean
what he doesn't own.
So it's got to be within his control.
So if you're not quite happy with the litter condition, it's not a problem.
But I would just ask you to consider it's within the curtilage of his premises.
I've mentioned about the planning, which I do not intend to deal with.
There has been mention of the schools.
All I would say about that, there's no reason to address that in any way because we already
have addressed that through the conditions.
If the conditions such as challenge 25 types of ID
are binding on an operator like Raj,
and he's very experienced in dealing with them,
then despite there being a school locally,
schools exist side by side with convenience stores
everywhere in this country,
providing the policies and procedures are there,
there can't be any risk.
So that's how I would deal with that.
In terms of the deliveries to customers,
Again, there's been suggestion of condition.
The condition isn't appropriate
as it's been presented to you,
because as you know, deliveries to customers
is now part of life, it's commonplace.
We're looking at Uber, it's Deliveroo and the like.
Raj does not intend at this point to do that,
but he might well do that.
I think his son being a bit younger has said to his dad,
look, I think this might be something I want to do.
You can put conditions on in relation to it,
but what you've got to remember is that he's not in control
of third -party operators.
And as you know, conditions must be something
that he can control,
otherwise he would fall in breach of them.
So I have some specific conditions
that are framed around what he can control.
And it's about the selection of the delivery partners
and the contractual requirements they impose
and making sure all of these companies
have their own contractual requirements.
And it's about somebody like Rod
making sure that they are in place.
I don't know if you want me to read them, but he shall only partner with third party
delivery providers that maintain and operate an age verification policy for alcohol deliveries.
Such policies shall require delivery personnel to verify that the person is aged over 18,
request acceptable ID where they're under 25, and refuse to hand over alcohol where
they cannot demonstrate their age, and that a record of the third party delivery providers
will be kept and it's there available on request.
I'm quite happy to send that over if you would like.
But that's the kind of framework that a condition of this nature needs to be,
because he does not have control.
And requesting electric vehicles and things like that is far disproportionate
to what we're dealing with here and again, not something that he can control.
So if you're minded to put a condition on about deliveries
just to local people, bearing in mind we are only dealing with the hours of the minute
6 to 11, when everything is kind of bustling, then those are the types of conditions that
I would suggest. In terms of the hours, we have talked about this, we have applied for
6 to 11 and I am going to go through this mostly in terms of the legal framework, but
what I will say, having spoken to this lady earlier, we are happy to volunteer a reduction
in the hours in the morning until 7 o 'clock, which is exactly what this lady lives next
door and I think that might satisfy her concern there specifically. So that would change the
hours for both opening and alcohol until 7 till 11.
Now Raj recognises that residents might have concerns but the hours that we have applied
for, be it 6 to 11 or 7 to 11, I perfectly standard for a business of this nature in
residential areas. Convenience is, that's exactly the point of convenience stores.
And I'm sure you'll know that, as I said at the start, that he's entitled to open the
hours that he's applied for without reference to alcohol, so he can open 24 hours if he
wanted to. We're only dealing here, the restriction that you are dealing with is really in relation
to alcohol. So his opening hours will be 7 to 11. And then if we look at the alcohol,
you know, we're looking at the early hours and there's this assertion often made that
the wider people want it at that time and they'll, there'll be problems. There's no
evidence of any problems anywhere about early hours of alcohol in the morning, because the
reality is that there will hardly be any sales of it. The point of having the alcohol hours
matching the opening hours is a very, very good point.
It's a legal point.
And that is if we stagger them in some way,
then everything has to, he has to invest in lockable shutters.
He has to cover all the alcohol because otherwise he commits a criminal offence.
And that criminal offence is exposing alcohol for sale by retail.
That is why the, how it's really important that the hours for opening an alcohol match.
That's why it's written into the guidance at 4 .7.
It says specifically that shops and supermarkets
should normally be free to provide alcohol
for at any times when it's open for shopping,
unless there's very good reason based on evidence
for altering them and making them different.
And that's the reason that that's there.
They need to be able to just open the door
and everything be available.
It's not that he intends to sell loads of gin and whiskey
in the morning, that's simply not the case.
The odd person might come in for a bottle of wine
at that time, but he needs to be able to have it available on a legal basis.
In terms of the later hours, again, 11 o 'clock is standard across the board, 7 .11, we all
know that phrase and that is a standard hour. There is a shop two doors down that has 11
o 'clock and it really isn't anything that is out of the ordinary. If you are considering
in any context, because often hearings like this,
we've had a nice conversation out there.
It's not about stopping this business.
I really don't think that's the point
that the residents are making here,
but then the default position comes,
well, let's ask for less in terms of hours.
Well, I ask you one thing or ask you to consider one thing
when you're thinking about that.
If this gentleman is capable of upholding
the licencing objectives,
he's done it for 20 years at his other shop.
And if he's capable of upholding the licencing objectives at 8pm, 9pm on a Friday and Saturday
when he is at its busiest, most people are in the shops then, then why would you or anyone
else say he's not capable of doing it between 10pm and 11pm or 9pm and 11pm? There simply
isn't the justification for thinking in that way. There's certainly no evidence for it.
And so considering we've, you know, we've applied,
we're volunteering to reduce the hour in the morning,
11 o 'clock is something that he does want.
And we ask you to consider the direct evidence
if you are considering curtailing those hours,
bearing in mind a shot a couple of doors down
has those hours in any event.
And the other thing is, this is an unusual situation
in that it already has the premises licence
for half past 12.
So we're actually reducing activity by making this application.
So in terms of just to finish, you've got the conditions.
I've spoke about the conditions that have been proposed and made my points on that.
Really it's just to, again, keep this within the legal framework.
You've obviously got the Section 182 guidance, but you've also got the Thwaites's case, which
is quoted everywhere because it is the most instructive case
that we have in licencing.
And the way it is determined that licencing is light touch,
it's flexible, it's permissive,
and it is all of those things because of the power of review.
If there are problems, the right approach is not to stop just in case
and not to use speculation, but to let things happen
because the very significant power of review,
people can have them straight back in front of you
if there is a problem in the future.
There's no reason within the context of this application
to suggest that that will be the case.
So it's a very, very robust application
with the conditions proposed,
additional conditions that have been suggested
on the amendment until seven in the morning.
I would ask you to grant this to Rod
and the other point really is about supporting businesses
who employ people and contribute to your authorities
He's trying to do what he can really in the face of not a great situation with his current
business so he's looking for your support today.
Thank you.
Cllr Richard Morgan - 0:22:57
Cllr James Small - 0:23:01
Councillor James Small, just a quick question on your existing business in Greys.
What environment is that sitting in currently?
Is it similar to a high density residential area?
Public Speaker - 0:23:15
It is in a residential area.
We have not had any trouble with the residents since 2006 running the business.
So we have more support from the neighbours and we look after them, even the leaders or something.
We just keep doing so.
Cllr James Small - 0:23:37
On what hours do you sell alcohol there in Greys?
Public Speaker - 0:23:40
My licence there from 6 am till 11, but mostly people in the area, they come afternoon mostly.
But we got the licence because we opened the shop 5 in the morning because of the newspaper delivery.
So I should open five in the morning. That's where the licence was six till 11.
Cllr James Small - 0:24:05
And this business you referenced nearby, obviously I'm not familiar with it,
so does that sell alcohol and if so, which hours?
Public Speaker - 0:24:20
Sorry, I didn't mention to you actually, you've two representations,
from one from the owner and one from the DPS within your pack of this premises.
and I do believe the petition came from there as well.
It's Metro Superstore.
I'm sure Peter will confirm anything you need to know
about that.
Yeah.
Cllr Barbara Cohen - 0:24:43
Hi.
If you do have deliveries,
will you be delivering our motorbike?
Public Speaker - 0:24:51
Well, I'll answer that.
I mean, that's, yeah, I mean, potentially.
I think they use that you'll know better than me down here.
They use whatever they use.
So mopeds and motorbikes and things like that.
If it's Uber Eats, I mean, this is something for the future.
It's not something that they're doing now,
but it will be through platforms like Deliveroo and Uber Eats.
Sorry, I was going to ask it.
Cllr James Small - 0:25:15
Yeah, I was actually going to ask about the delivery.
So you're considering Deliveroo. Any other providers?
Well, they don't know.
They don't know yet.
Public Speaker - 0:25:21
It's something for the future. Yeah.
I mean, you can safeguard it today by way of a condition,
but in the future, there's so many different,
there's things like, I don't know,
there's all different types,
so Uber Eats and Deliveroo are only ones we mention
because you know who they are.
I'm not saying they're necessarily going to use them,
but it's just to create the impression of what will happen.
Cllr James Small - 0:25:45
It's just my concern with those sort of companies
is there have been some bad press recently
for Houlay Employ.
So how can we trust that they will cheque the age of their customers when they're delivering to?
Public Speaker - 0:25:59
Well, you can't is the answer to that.
I mean, but Raj is not responsible for that.
They have their policies and procedures.
If you go on the website, you will see their policies and procedures that reflect everything that you would want to see.
And if they have problems, they should be dealing with that internally.
And that's all I can say on that.
Everybody uses them.
The platforms that are all across the country,
we all know that they're there.
And yeah, they should be dealing with that.
So at the moment, the restaurant,
Cllr Barbara Cohen - 0:26:32
do you do deliveries from the restaurant at the moment?
And would you be able to, in the future,
do you intend to do groceries and alcohol from your shop
Public Speaker - 0:26:49
as a delivery? Yeah, I mean again it's not something
necessarily for now, he's got a lot on his plate but it is something he will want to
be doing definitely yes
at some point. It's a really really big part of convenience now, it's massive
you know it really is, it's the way that life is now we know that delivery is the way
Cllr Barbara Cohen - 0:27:08
that things are.
And is there a limit to how many motorbikes he's allowed to have outside his shop?
Public Speaker - 0:27:14
No, I don't have any knowledge of anything
like that. That's out of his control.
Cllr Richard Morgan - 0:27:26
Cllr Barbara Cohen - 0:27:28
So are you going to have any deliveries to your shop? You know, people pick up packages and stuff?
Are you going to have one of those sort of, I've seen these things you've got a code in.
Public Speaker - 0:27:38
Yeah, potentially. I'm sure that he will be doing their in every convenience store.
You're doing every and yeah, he will be doing.
Cllr Richard Morgan - 0:27:47
I'll turn it off.
If you'd like just to ask questions to start with on the application and then we'll go
on to why you're objecting to it.
Okay?
Public Speaker - 0:28:15
That way around? Certainly sir.
Right, firstly, personally, it's very well presented, but I welcome the 7am change because that makes it better.
I can't help myself, a case was quoted, Thwaites, which is the...
Is it a question?
It is a question, but there's also hope and glory, is there not, which is also a major
case and is it not the case that we should be looking at licencing applications as a
whole rather than very specific parts?
Where does it say that 11 and 7 is the national standard?
Right, 11 to 7, 7 till 11 is my anecdotal, 7 till 11, we all know 7 till 11, I work with
thousands upon thousands of convenience stores, we represent Bestway nationally, I can give
you all, we represent Morrisons nationally, it's my, I won't, it's my, that is my anecdotal
evidence, they actually go beyond 7 till 11, a lot of them, so that is, it's not written
anywhere, but we all know that it's usually seven till 11.
In terms of, I don't understand the question about what else you want to see about the
application.
You'll need to be more specific.
Okay, well let me be more specific then.
If customers come out of the store as they do, isn't there some responsibility if they
start littering in our street?
Yeah, I mean, we don't know that they're going to litter because there's going to be bins
and places for people to put their litter, but they're responsible to that in their own
right. The responsibility of the licence holder is simply to ensure that the curtledge of
their premises is clear. I'm sure that we can expect people to put litter in the bins.
And it wasn't really covered.
I mean, you mentioned the car parks,
but the whole point really is around obstruction.
So I meant, and to the danger.
So it's just a point that is manifested itself
as I put in the amplified rep, I believe,
to say that they had to do what they had to do,
but when there was a vehicle, a large vehicle outside,
doing repairs, it forced cars and other vehicles
to do rather dangerous manoeuvres to get by.
So one of the major concerns is
that any vehicles coming to and fro,
we're more interested in the locality
of Speeton Road and Jiggle Road,
of what steps will be taken to ensure
that we won't be blocked access and egress.
Often the road is blocked the other side
because of roadworks or something.
And that vehicle, not saying the others will,
but cause potential danger and obstruction.
Yeah, well, as you'll know yourself,
we're talking public safety and licencing,
but public safety, the licencing objective
is about the physical safety of people inside the premises.
Parking does not come into a licencing hearing.
That is a matter for planning and highways.
It is not for... We're here for a licence for alcohol.
We're not here to try and manage people's behaviour in vehicles.
Again, they're responsible in their own right.
It is not Raj's responsibility to deal with parking.
It's not the correct forum for that discussion today.
Well, we're not supposed to talk about parking.
What we're talking about is obstruction
and those vehicles that are going to support the business?
Does it matter to be had, is there not?
Right, so again, vehicle beat parking,
or vehicles generally is not a matter
for this committee today.
I don't know how much clearer I can be on that, really.
Cllr Richard Morgan - 0:32:37
Public Speaker - 0:32:39
One of the things is that Smeaton Road,
people who don't know it,
It's 120 years old, so it's a very thin road.
I've got disabled bay for my partner.
In the last few weeks, I've had people parking in the bay.
So, although obviously I can park somewhere else,
it's my fear is that shocked people would think,
oh, we're not gonna be long and just park in the bay.
So looking at the main road, Chippewa Road,
I would like to feel the customers park there
where there's trees all on the other side.
Yeah, and...
Rather than come into the road
and take up what small space there is.
I mean, if you're not there before seven o 'clock
in the evening, you can't park in the road.
No, but as a question...
That's without a shop, without anything.
Yeah.
You can't park in the road.
It's a question.
Look, we all hope that people park where they should.
I mean, again, the point of convenience is that
most of the people are local and will walk.
But again, Raj is a licence holder
and a person running the shop cannot be made responsible
for people who choose to park badly.
And that is, you know, it's not that we don't sympathise
with what you're saying.
No, I reckon I recognise that, but I just think, you know, people try to understand
that we've already got a situation where it's a very tight road.
I mean, with regards to litter, I pick up litter every day that's thrown out.
So someone should be coming from the restaurant, the shop, whatever, and doing the job that
I'm doing, you know, picking up litter.
It is not my place to do it but I don't want to go into a road which has got cans of drink
and paper and rubbish all littered outside where I live.
The other thing I just wanted to say with regards to the deliveries and all of that,
that there would be specified that any deliveries or anything like that is done on Chippewa
Road entrance rather than Smeaton Road entrance.
I can address that. I mean, again, he doesn't have control of premier deliveries.
And I know how they work, and the premier delivery drivers are fully trained,
and if there's any issue, they just go away, they don't deliver.
So they will... They are fully responsible and fully trained in themselves.
Well, I think kind of what my concern is, is they've actually put gates on the back.
Yeah. I mean, look, we've offered the condition that we can offer,
which is deliveries in terms of during the day
so that it prevents noise nuisance as a result.
We really can't go any further than that.
We can't be controlling other people's behaviour.
No, but as I say, it was just something that I wanted to express,
that if it's a condition, I mean, it was a condition with the chicken shop
and we've never had any problems with that,
with the previous people, it was never a problem.
So it can be, you know, all deliveries go through Chickle Road,
but I think it needs to be specified rather than a goodwill gesture,
because some of the things that have happened since the current owners have moved in
have changed from what they have said they are going to do and what they have done has been different.
Cllr Richard Morgan - 0:36:17
Okay. So if you would like to give us your reason for objecting to the application, please?
Public Speaker - 0:36:23
Certainly, but if I may, can I just ask legal for clarification on a point, please?
Charlotte Baker - 0:36:37
I'm legal for the council, so I'm pretty sure I'm not allowed to give you advice, but what
is the question?
I don't want advice, really.
Public Speaker - 0:36:50
My understanding from being in numerous licencing hearings is that I'm
I'm unconvinced that a premises doesn't have responsibility in terms of
structure of the highway of those vehicles involved with that premises.
It's always taken into consideration as a natural facet.
So can you clarify the position, please?
Charlotte Baker - 0:37:30
I think that would be more of a planning matter but I don't think I can advise on that.
Chair, if it may assist my view, I would echo what the advice has just been given by legal.
David King - 0:37:54
So the broader issues will be considered at the planning stage.
And planning and licencing are two separate regimes.
So we're here to consider the sale of alcohol, not the broader issues.
If you remove the sale of alcohol from the store,
the store can open tomorrow and operate as a convenience store.
And we are solely concerned about the sale of alcohol
and any conditions that the committee attach to it should relate to that activity.
Cllr Richard Morgan - 0:38:21
Cllr James Small - 0:38:25
I have some more questions, please. Councillor Jones, one more game. You mentioned earlier
that in your experience with the thousands of stores that you are dealing with, these
operating hours of 7 to 11 selling alcohol. So what days on average and those periods
within those days are you finding busiest, rare cold cells at large mentioned, for example,
from his experience, mainly the afternoon? So what day is that, including weekends or
weekdays?
Public Speaker - 0:38:51
He made that reference obviously in knowledge of his other shop, so he can say that categorically.
I mean, I can't say categorically.
You would be able to answer it in just the same way as me.
It's not a definitive I know this for sure.
I haven't been out doing a survey or anything like that.
You know, a convenience store near me is a spa.
It's absolutely packed at weekends, weekend evenings.
It's just a common sense view.
That's all that is.
Cllr James Small - 0:39:17
Just a reminder for the officers, please, the nearby store, the Metro.
what their hours of alcohol sales are, please.
Thank you.
Peter Jones - 0:39:24
Yeah, I can advise that their licence allows
are Monday to Saturday 8 a .m. to 11 p .m.
and Sunday 8 a .m. to 10 p .m.
Cllr James Small - 0:39:34
So, sorry, to clarify,
so Monday to Friday 8 to 11, you said?
Monday to Saturday.
Excuse me, sorry.
Yeah, I was gonna say.
And Sunday?
Peter Jones - 0:39:41
8 to 10.
8 to 10, wonderful, thank you.
Cllr Barbara Cohen - 0:39:50
I have one more question. I was referring to your question about the vehicles going
down Smeaton Road. Sorry, the vehicles that would use Smeaton Road for deliveries, is
it just the deliveries that you were concerned about going to the shop or the deliveries
from the shop down Smeaton Road?
Public Speaker - 0:40:21
Well, I think... I think the whole thing is...
I mean, it's on the corner of the Smeaton Road and Shippell Road.
So, I mean, everything's the same.
They can't stop and come to the house,
while it's just different.
The serving door is round the front.
The more likely it is to park round the front.
OK. The serving door is round the street,
and I think it will be more...
..to use that space.
Cllr Barbara Cohen - 0:40:47
Where is the serving door at the moment? It is in Chigurh Road.
Public Speaker - 0:41:00
No one is using the side road but they are concerned about that. We are serving through
the front door only.
Cllr Barbara Cohen - 0:41:07
In Chigurh Road.
Thank you.
Any further questions?
Cllr Richard Morgan - 0:41:15
Public Speaker - 0:41:18
Yes, I can't remember, sir.
Is that conditioned to just through the front door?
No, it isn't because, again, vehicles, it's just not a relevant consideration for this committee.
Cllr Richard Morgan - 0:41:33
Have you tried to put why you're objecting to the application, please?
Public Speaker - 0:41:41
Certainly, sir.
Seven o 'clock is far better for me.
Acceptance of conditions is far better for me.
I had concerns for those things that I said for the record, because I disagree.
and it's just a concern of antisocial behaviour and noise.
That said, I want them to do well.
I am not against them having a business.
I am concerned for residents and peace and quiet.
That's it.
Okay.
Any other questions or comments before we return to the application?
Cllr Richard Morgan - 0:42:22
Public Speaker - 0:42:30
Thank you, Chair. I just want to sum up a little bit. I've just spoken with Raj about
the point that you've asked, and a condition can be applied if you're concerned about it.
I don't think it's particularly relevant, but, you know, he says they will only be making
deliveries to Chigwell Road, so there is your definitive answer on that, because you know
we've got to be careful with conditions and the way that they are worded. There was concern
about deliveries from the premises. The conditions that I have here and that I've offered is
absolutely as far as a retailer is able to go. They cannot control things any more than
checking the policies and making sure policies are in place with the companies that they
choose to partner with for deliveries.
And like I say, I'm happy to give you the wording of that.
I want to make the point about the store two doors down.
The hours that it has is entirely irrelevant to this hearing.
You have to deal with this on its merits.
That's one of the central core themes of licencing and it's throughout the guidance again and
again.
an application on its merits.
And given what's been said about,
and I'm really grateful for the clarification
on what we're here to deal with it.
It's a very, very specific thing we're here to deal with.
It is the sale of alcohol and that is it.
We're not dealing with deliveries of bread and milk
and newspapers.
They are not licenced products.
It's purely the sale of alcohol, a very specific assessment.
And your job is, will this licence,
will the licencing objectives be upheld when alcohol is handed over?
That is the assessment.
And given the very significant offerings, robust safeguards,
that have been not only the national standard,
but then specific ones to address what we've heard here,
they're all proposed and would form, it would be a criminal offence
to not comply with those.
But fortunately, you also have a very, very experienced operator as well here.
So it is a very, very robust application.
The hours sought are 7 till 11.
And, yeah, I would ask you to grant it as applied.
Thank you.
One more question.
Cllr Barbara Cohen - 0:44:56
Will you be selling vapes and cigarettes?
Yes.
Cllr Richard Morgan - 0:45:00
OK.
No other questions?
might we will retire in concealing of protection.

8 Application for Premises Licence - Premier, Chigwell

Cllr Richard Morgan - 0:45:13
Right. This is the licencing subcommittees.
Oh sorry.
This is the sheet for the application for a premises licence at 783 Triggell Road, Trigwell.
The Licencing Committee considered application of a four -part premises licence at Premier
783 Jiggle Road, Jiggle Road.
The representatives in report and on a date table end have taken into account and will
also, to get what is appropriate, promote the four licence objectives and the relevant
parts of the Council's licencing policy and government guidance.
During our deliberations in private session, a legal advisor and officers clarify points
on policy and law regarding what can be taken into consideration in deciding this application.
Legal clarifies on how to take the application and its own merits.
Based on the merits of the application, having considered the representations received and
The information provided by both the applicant and the objectives in the hearing,
the licence is granted.
Sale of alcohol can be summoned off the premises Monday to Sunday, 7am to 2300pm.
The applicants in the hearing agree to amend the opening hours from 7am to 2300am.
Subsequent to the conditions as specific to the application in the application, we also
attached the mandatory conditions containing sections 19 to 21 of the Licencing Act 2003.
The application and the persons who have made representations are reminded of the right
to appeal to the magistrate's court within 21 days and so that of the date of this written
notification of the decision.
Thank you.
I think that concludes our meeting, isn't it?
Yes.
Okay, well thank you everybody.
And, uh, that's the end of the meeting closed.
Cllr Barbara Cohen
District councillor for Buckhurst Hill East and Whitebridge ward
Loughton Residents Association
View profile Cllr Barbara Cohen
Peter Jones
Licensing Compliance Officer
Epping Forest District Council
View profile Peter Jones
David King
Team Manager - Licensing
Epping Forest District Council
View profile David King
Cllr Richard Morgan
District councillor for Rural East ward
Conservative Party
View profile Cllr Richard Morgan
Cllr James Small
District councillor for Buckhurst Hill East and Whitebridge ward
Reform UK
View profile Cllr James Small