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Licensing Committee
Thursday, 8th October 2026 at 7:00pm

 
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  1. Gary Woodhall
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  1. Cllr Darshan Sunger
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  3. Cllr Alan Lion
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  1. Gary Woodhall
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  5. Cllr Mandy George
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  1. Gary Woodhall
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  1. David King
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1 Webcasting Introduction

Gary Woodhall - 0:00:00
Good evening, members. Welcome to the full licencing subcommittee – full committee.
Before I go any further, I'll read the webcasting announcement, as we are being webcast. I'd
like to remind everyone that this meeting will be filmed live or recorded and uploaded
to the internet and will be capable of repeated viewing. Therefore, by participating in this
meeting you are consenting to being filmed and to the possible use of those images and
sound recordings. If any public speakers on MS Teams do not wish to have their image captured,
they should ensure that their video setting throughout the meeting is turned off and set
to audio only. Members and public speakers are reminded to turn on their microphones
before speaking and turn them off when they have finished.
So, members, as you can see, we don't have a chairman.
This committee doesn't have a vice chairman who can just step in.
So, do I have a nomination for temporary chairman for tonight
or until Councillor Richard Morgan gets here?
Thank you.
Thank you, Gary.
Just to say, I would like to nominate Councillor Lyon to chair the meeting for today.
Cllr Darshan Sunger - 0:01:31
But I think we may need to take on board in the future.
Maybe we should think about a vice -chairman in the future.
Not that it happens that often.
But yes, Councillor Lyon.
And I believe Councillor Lisa Morgan wishes to second Councillor Lyon.
Yes, please. I was going to nominate him. So yes, please. If that's okay with Councillor
Lyon.
Cllr Lisa Morgan - 0:01:49
Are there any other nominations from the rest of the committee?
No.
Okay. Councillor Lyon, you have been duly appointed.
Cllr Alan Lion - 0:02:02
Thank you.

2 Apologies for Absence

Good evening, members. Welcome to the licencing committee on 8 October. We have had the web
casting announcement and I'm acting as temporary chairman, thanks to the nomination.
Item 2, Gary, apologies. The only apologies I've had tonight so far, Chairman, have been
Gary Woodhall - 0:03:23
Councillor Heather. Okay, so we have a number of...
Cllr Alan Lion - 0:03:29
Councillor Morgan. I've just had a message from Councillor Cohen to say she's trying to get on
Cllr Lisa Morgan - 0:03:33
online because she couldn't get his transcript online?
We are aware she's struggling and our Teams officer has been messaging her that she's
Gary Woodhall - 0:03:45
not been responding. So if she responds to Louis, she's probably emailing me or trying
to message me, which as I'm here I can't look at and respond to. So if she goes back to
Louis then we'll try and get her in.
Councillor George.
Hi, good evening, all.
I know that Councillor Cornish is supposed to be arriving,
Cllr Mandy George - 0:04:09
so that could be the traffic and all that's going on.
So she's...
No, no, she is attending,
so I know if she wasn't attending,
she would have emailed in.
So she'll be late.
Yes, she should be late.
OK.
OK, we'll wait and see.
Thank you very much.
Cllr Alan Lion - 0:04:26
So moving on.

3 Declarations of Interest

Item 3, declarations of interest.
Nobody interested?
Okay.

4 Minutes of the Licensing Committee

Item 4 is the minutes of the licencing committee, pages 4 to 11, that was held on the 16th of
April.
Any comments?
Can I take those as a true record?
Thank you.

5 Minutes of the Licensing Sub-Committees

Item 6, we have –
Item 5.
You missed Item 5.
Oh, no I didn't.
Minutes of the sub -committee.
Sorry, thank you.
So minutes of the licencing sub -committee on Item 5 will be available for the chairman.
Yes, that's the old text, Chairman.
And so now that we get the minutes of the subcommittees signed by DocuSign, it's just
Gary Woodhall - 0:05:25
a case of the relevant chairman of the meetings for the last six months confirming that they
are happy with the minutes.
So unfortunately, two of the meetings was Councillor Richard Morgan, who is not yet
here.
The meeting in between was Councillor Heather, who's given his apologies.
So, on 7 July, the Chairman was Councillor George.
On 19 May, the Chairman for that subcommittee, because it was the old municipal year, was
Councillor Louise Mead.
We had Councillor Cohen, Councillor Lisa Morgan and Councillor Cornish also on that committee.
So, was you happy with the minutes?
I was happy with the minutes, yes.
Okay. Thank you.
Is that... I can move on, can I?
Yeah. Thank you.

6 Licensing Statistics 2025/26

Cllr Alan Lion - 0:06:22
Okay, we'll move on then to item six, licence and statistics on page 12.
Let me find it.
I think it's...
The
David King - 0:07:02
The statistical report details a number of applications received under the Licencing Act 2003 and the Gambling Act 2005
between 1 April 2025 and 31 March 2026.
For information comparison, the figures for the previous two 12 -month periods have also been provided.
The report is purely for information, Chair, but I am happy to take any questions if you have any. Thank you.
I have got a question.
Cllr Alan Lion - 0:07:32
Do we have any information on the year -to -date figures, so 26, 27, if we've got any information
on that?
No, we normally report at the end of the financial year.
Yes, I realise.
David King - 0:07:43
I'm just thinking, you know, do we have a trend?
Is anything changing?
Is it – because this is fairly consistent, isn't it, over those three years?
Yes, we do anticipate that there will have been an increase in temporary event notices,
certainly over the summer because we had the world cup.
But, you know, if the committee require an upstate information on that, I'd be glad to provide that for the minutes.
Anybody else got any issues on that?
So we'll let it go and we'll wait for the next report as it comes in.
Thank you very much.
Cllr Alan Lion - 0:08:17
It's quite flat, isn't it, really?
Generally, there isn't significant change, so it's quite good.
I'm sure there will be after some of the report children will be presenting this evening.
Item 7, licencing updates. David.

7 Licensing Updates

David King - 0:08:39
Yes, thank you, Chair. So the purpose of the report is to inform the Committee of the recent
and forthcoming changes to Licencing Act 2003 and updates to statutory guidance issued by
the Secretary of State. The Licencing Act mandatory licence conditions amendment order
came into force on 15 September 2026.
The order allows licenced premises to choose to accept
certified digital proof of age,
alongside the existing physical forms of identification.
Under new arrangements, licenced premises can adopt
certified digital age verification services
to confirm that the customer is aged 18 or over
when purchasing alcohol.
Physical identification documents will remain valid
and businesses are not required to adopt
digital proof of age.
The legislation follows parliamentary approval of the amendment order earlier this year and
now formally amends the mandatory licencing conditions relating to the age of verification.
Digital proof of age must be provided through a Government -registered Digital Verification
Service, DBS, that is listed on the Statuary Register and meets the standards set out within
the UK Digital Verification Services Trust Mainwork.
Section 182, guidance issued to licencing authorities, states where digital form of
identification is presented, the licence holders must not solely rely on visual inspection
to determine whether a digital form of identification is genuine.
Instead, the identification must be verified by a DBS that is certified and listed on the
DBS register as providing an age verification service at the required level of competence
and in accordance with the UK DBS Trust framework.
Whilst Government sets out the legal requirements
for the use of digital proof of age,
it does not prescribe a specific technical approach
for how licence holders implement these requirements in practise.
Licence holders can decide whether and how they accept
digital forms or identification,
provided they comply with the mandatory conditions of their licence.
While the amendment introduces a new option for age replication,
it does not alter the legal age for drinking
or the responsibility of the licence holders
to present under ASLs.
Government is also, Chair,
is also proposing to increase
the number of temporary event notices.
On the 10th of September,
the Ministry of State laid before Parliament
the Licence and Act
permitted temporary activities Amendment Order 2026.
Subject to parliamentary approval,
changes will come into force on 1st January 2027
and will increase the maximum number of 10s
that can be given in respect to the premises
from 15 to 20 in any calendar year.
The maximum number of days on which temporary event
licence work activities can take place
will also increase from 21 to 26 days.
The higher limits were previously introduced
on a temporary basis during COVID -19 period
and government states that the experience has demonstrated
the value of providing premises users
with additional flexibility and has therefore decided
to make the increase limits permanent.
The change is intended to support local economies,
high streets and community activity, but making it easier for businesses to organise events
without requiring a variation to their premises licence or to apply for a new premises licence.
Thank you, Chair.
Thank you. Any questions?
Councillor Soongar.
Cllr Alan Lion - 0:11:54
Cllr Darshan Sunger - 0:11:57
Thank you, Chair. Thank you, David, for your report and update. I think it's really pleased
to see that we are extending the number of 10s and also the 21 to 28 days. We really
do need to support our local businesses.
They need to thrive.
And I think giving them this particular leverage
will allow them to sort of bring in some more business,
especially leading up to Christmas and New Year as well.
So I would imagine you would probably get an increasing
number of applications for the tenants as well.
But yeah, I think something that we should welcome
in support of our local businesses in the high streets.
Thank you.
Any other members?
No comments?
I've got a couple of comments.
Cllr Alan Lion - 0:12:39
On the digital ID, what does this actually mean for us as a Council
in terms of officers and members?
Is it going to have any impact on members?
Is there going to be additional inspections that are required
for digital IDs for officers?
No, Chair.
There won't be a change for the Council.
David King - 0:13:02
The only change is that as we amend licences, we issue new licences,
is the new mandatory condition will be applied
to those licences.
It's purely up to the premises
whether they adopt the digital IT ID.
They don't have to.
So the premises themselves, if they choose to adopt it,
and they're gonna accept digital ID,
they have to sign up to a government -approved supplier
and do it through that.
There won't be an impact on the council.
So is this getting digital ID in
Cllr Alan Lion - 0:13:32
under the sort of barrier because Digital ID itself has been abandoned, I believe, or deferred.
It's more to do with, you've got to sign up yourself if you want to actually provide Digital ID.
So it's just, I think it's bringing the licencing act up to date,
and it will avoid over time, I'm sure the take -up will probably be quite slow initially,
David King - 0:13:59
but over time I'm sure that a number of businesses will probably embrace it,
and it will avoid people having to carry around physical documents, perhaps passports and
that which they have had to do in the past to prove their idea.
Okay, go on.
Councillor Sumner.
Just an observation there, Chairman.
Cllr Darshan Sunger - 0:14:14
I think it is a good thing, there is a lot of this happening in other parts of sectors,
in other businesses as well, the digital verification service.
I think it is good leading up to Christmas and our New Year and the very seasonal events
I think it's good in the sense that the onus is on the people that are coming to the venue
to actually say they've got the proof.
And then as long as the venue can verify that, the digital, it stops any arguments as well,
I think, on the door if someone is trying to get in.
If they've got that, they've got to then, if the business is signed up, they will accept
that.
So I think in a way, to suck it and see, well, let's see what happens.
But I think it's something that we should welcome as well.
Thank you. I'm not quite sure how it's going to work, but it will be interesting to see.
Cllr Alan Lion - 0:15:04
Okay, let's move on.

8 Tobacco & Vapes Act 2026

Item 8, and that's Tobacco and Vapes Act 2026, David.
Thank you, Chair.
David King - 0:15:17
Chair, I previously reported back in April 2025 on the Tobacco and Vape Bill, which was
then at the early stages of the parliamentary process, and I advised the committee that
Council's licencing team would continue to monitor the bill's progress and that I'd update
you in due course.
You may recall that the bill revived the key measures from the previous Government while
introducing new provisions and it aimed to shift the UK healthcare focus from the treatment
to prevention, primarily by addressing tobacco use.
A number of the key highlights included banning vending machines, raising the age of sale,
Individuals born on or after the 1st of January 2009 will no longer be able to purchase tobacco.
Extending smoke -free areas, a ban on advertising, an introduction of a licencing scheme for
tobacco and vape retailers.
The Tobacco and Vapes Bill has now become law and the Tobacco and Vapes Act received
royal assent on 29th of April this year.
Under current legislation, it is illegal to sell tobacco and vapes to those under 18,
However, in England, unlike the sale of alcohol, there are currently no regulatory requirements
to hold a licence to sell these products.
A central feature of the new Act is its strength in the enforcement framework.
And the new law enables governments to introduce a retail licencing scheme for the sale of
tobacco and vaping products, which has long been called for by enforcement bodies concerned
about the scale of illicit tobacco trading.
The scheme is expected to require retailers to obtain a licence or be registered in order
to sell tobacco products, supported by the creation of a national or locally administered
register.
Enforcement authorities, including trading standards, are expected to be given powers
to issue penalties that take action against non -compliant businesses, including the suspension
or revocation of licences.
The licencing regime will be set out in secondary legislation, and those regulations may describe
the local authority that will be the licencing authority, may make provisions which mean
The licencing authority could not grant a licence
to a premises in a particular area,
for example, in proximity to a school.
Allow the licencing authority to charge a fee
for the application.
Require the licencing authority to pay a portion of fees
collected to persons with enforcement responsibilities
such as trading standards.
Make provisions regarding conditions.
Make provisions regarding the duration of the licence.
And establish a reviews and appeals process.
Government is currently considering responses to its previous call for evidence, and it
has advised that further consultation on the licencing regime to regulate the salad, tobacco,
vapes and nicotine products will take place in 2027. However, at this time, no timescale
has been given.
Whilst the Government is to consult further on the proposed licencing scheme, the details
of the licencing authority are yet to be determined. Given the Council's existing role as licencing
and authority for both alcohol and gambling.
It is anticipated that the Council will also become
licenced in authority for tobacco and vape retailers also.
This is acknowledged and recommended by the Institute
of Licencing to the Tobacco and Vapes Bill Committee.
That recommendation can be found in full
under point 10 of the report, Chair.
Assuming that this is the case,
in terms of central resource implications for the Council,
in the absence of any existing regulation
for vape and tobacco related products,
it is difficult to assess at this stage the level of regulation that will be required.
However, as the legislation includes all retail premises selling vape or tobacco products,
including supermarkets, off -licences, grocery stores, tobaccos and vape shops, it is likely
that the impact will be significant and potentially comparable in scale to that under -licencing.
Whilst the extent of the licencing scheme is yet to be determined, it is likely that
the new licencing authority will need to not only administer the new regime, but they will
need to develop or adapt an IT system,
link it in with trading standards,
train staff and prepare communication and guidance,
inform businesses and support retailers
through the transition, process applications and renewals.
Similar to licencing and gambling acts,
they may also need to develop and adopt
a tobacco and vape policy,
a committee process for determining contested applications
and arrange additional training for its committee members.
However, as the regulations may allow
a licencing authority to charge a fee on application and renewal for a licence, it is hoped that
this will be offset and that any fees will be on a cost recovery basis to the Council.
In terms of timescales, as advised in the report, the licences scheme will come into
force on the date specified in the regulations. It is expected that there will be a transitional
period of between six to 12 months to allow licencing authorities and businesses to prepare
for the new regime. I would therefore anticipate that the new regime will be implemented at
at some point in 2028 -29.
The Council's licencing team will of course continue to monitor the Act's progress
and update the Committee as appropriate.
Thank you, Chair.
Councillor MACKENZIE.
Cllr Alan Lion - 0:20:23
Actually, I think I put my hand up too quick because they've answered one of the questions already.
Cllr Lisa Morgan - 0:20:26
Because I was going to ask what sort of impact would you think this would have on us,
but you already said probably significant impact.
The only bit I didn't hear and couldn't find out was
When it says near to a school, how close are they talking near to a school?
Any idea, please?
Yeah, that actually has to be determined.
David King - 0:20:45
So whilst the Act's been passed, we're waiting on secondary legislation
in terms of licencing and the conditions.
So we imagine that information will follow in due course,
but we don't have that information at the moment.
Cllr Lisa Morgan - 0:21:00
OK, thank you, because obviously we have a lot of sort of convenience stores
very close to the schools and they're all selling alcohol, vapes,
cigarettes and tobacco products, so that would be really good.
As soon as we get something to be held to, at least bring it forward to us to let us
know.
That would be great, thank you.
They will be able to use their digital ID.
Cllr Alan Lion - 0:21:21
David King - 0:21:25
What I would say, we don't know the details yet, but I predate the Licence and Act on
gambling acts.
I was around when that came into effect.
Quite often there was a general understanding of grandfather rights.
So what we might see is existing premises that currently operate and can sell tobacco
and vape products, they may, even if they are close to a school or something like that,
they may get automatic grandfather rights.
So therefore if they apply we would have to grab licence.
But again that is something that will come through in secondary legislation.
Councillor George.
Hi.
Cllr Mandy George - 0:21:55
It is great that it has been updated but presently I am concerned because I know of a number
of underage kids that do vape, and considering the amount of vape shops there are in Epping,
I don't know wherever else how many there are in different districts, that what is the
monitoring being done now, what success rate has there been in identifying if they are
selling to underage children, and the next question I wanted to ask, well, advice really,
is to our residents that if they see a child that they know of coming out of a vape shop
child with a vape, who can they report that to? So that would be really good advice
for a resident, say, who's a child.
And I am concerned with the amount of children that I know of, and I have seen vaping,
and it's not good.
It's not the opportunity.
I think you're going on, David. One of the things that the Youth Council did last
Cllr Alan Lion - 0:22:51
year was a major project on vaping, and most schools have actually policed that sort
So the school is responsible for making sure the children that are at the school are managed
that way.
Stan, do you want to carry on?
Yes, that's part of the reason for the introduction of legislation.
David King - 0:23:08
So the sale of tobacco products and vapes and nicotine products has been completely
unregulated for this period of time.
So bringing it under a licencing banner will bring greater regulation to the industry,
which you see as a positive and that's something trading standards,
our colleagues in trading standards have been calling for for some time.
In terms of the existing regulation or the existing enforcement,
it's trading standards that have that responsibility.
What I can do for the minutes, if it will help, Chair,
is I will provide the details of how residents can complain directly to trading standards
because there's a website and a website link that I can provide you with.
Also, if you have any information that you'd like to share with me outside,
of this meeting and I'll be glad to report that on your behalf.
Just something that's come to light which I thought okay that's good coincidence
Cllr Mandy George - 0:23:59
well good impact for this evening it was to speak to you and see what can be done but thank you.
Councillor Soongar?
No, you're welcome.
Okay.
Cllr Alan Lion - 0:24:16
I think this is something that we should be thinking about but again it's not clear yet
whether we will be licencing the licence, managing the licence or not.
Is that…?
No, no, it's not 100 per cent.
David King - 0:24:30
The proposal under the bill and what's been suggested mirrors the licencing act process.
So therefore it makes the existing licencing authority the obvious choice.
Trading standards are still going to have a heavy input in terms of enforcement and
they have the power to issue fixed penalty notices and so on going forward.
But the recommendation from the Institute of Licencing is that the existing licencing
authority is already best placed, because we'll have the systems in place and the process
in place.
We'll already have the committee structures in place to determine applications
and so on.
And trading standards is a county function.
And trading standards is a county function.
So obviously, any complaints we get at the moment, we naturally refer them to our colleagues
in trading standards.
Cllr Alan Lion - 0:25:20
I think one of the things that was interested in reading this was what is the implication
to the licencing panel subcommittees.
Is there going to be any impact on that?
Would they be receiving or reviewing licences for tobacco and vaping?
The exact details are still yet to be determined.
David King - 0:25:39
However, it does tend to mirror that under licencing acts.
we imagine that there will be a consultation when new applications are submitted and therefore
if there's objections then it will come before yourselves as a licencing committee. There
will be the powers then to also review licences where there's been issues. So that's all
yet to be determined under secondary legislation.
There will be a significant increase in workload?
There will be. In terms of numbers we do anticipate it will be comparable to that under licenced
facts and if I refer you back to the statistics at the outset, we've got some 400 -odd premises
currently in our district, so we'll be looking around that size.
But we will be able to hopefully set a fee,
and we will be able to set a fee based on a cost recovery basis,
so we will at least be able to offset that.
Good, good.
Right, so moving on.

9 Guidance on the Licensing Act 2003

Cllr Alan Lion - 0:26:32
Item 9 is report to the Licencing Committee.
What is this?
Guidance of the Licencing Act.
This is something that I think we considered the last meeting, wasn't it, and looking
to see what needs to be done for communication.
I will leave you to take it forward.
Thank you, Chair.
David King - 0:27:04
Sorry, just finally from me, and you will recall that it was actually on 26 March 2024
that the Committee requested a general guidance not be drafted on the Licencing Act to assist
parish and town councillors and in particular explain how the licencing legislation differs
from that under planning.
That draught guidance was subsequently approved and circulated.
However the guidance has now been reviewed to reflect the latest Home Office guidance
and following the mine amendments made in line with section 182 Home Office guidance
and the Council's own revised statement of policy which was recently approved.
The mine amendments are as follows.
Under planning, licencing planning and other regulatory regimes, there is the inclusion
of.
It should also be noted that licencing law is not primarily the mechanism for the general
control of individuals once they are away from the licenced premises and therefore beyond
the direct control of individual licensees or certificate holders.
However, reasonable steps should be taken to prevent the occurrence of crime and disorder
and public nuisance immediately outside the premises.
It also includes, under decision making and right of appeal, the inclusion of.
It is also a requirement under Home Office guidance that when making licencing decisions,
all licencing authorities should now consider the need to promote and deliver economic benefits.
Again, this is in line with the Council's licencing policy and Section 118 guidance,
and if approved by the Licencing Committee, the guidance will again be circulated to all
Councillors via the Member's bulletin and a copy sent to all parish and town councils
for information.
The document will also be used as general guidance, which we'll put on the website,
and it will be available for residents and businesses to view.
So thank you, Chair.
Great.
Councillor Morgan.
Cllr Alan Lion - 0:28:54
Cllr Lisa Morgan - 0:28:56
Sorry, just one quick one. Thank you, David, for doing that. I remember being in that committee
when we were all asking you if you could do this. Have we had any response from the Town
and Parish Councils in relation to this policy that you sent out to them and anything? Was
there anything that they highlighted that you can bring to us?
David King - 0:29:14
No, no. We sent it out for information. We sent it out with a covering letter from the
and the portfolio holder at the time.
We had no feedback from the document.
However, if we resend it out,
I'm also aware that it was quite timely
to review the guidance,
because I'm aware that we've got some new Councillors
that have joined the Council also.
So it was a good opportunity to review the guidance
and recirculate it just to create that general awareness.
Thank you.
I'm really shocked actually that NABI came back
and had any comments to us.
Cllr Lisa Morgan - 0:29:46
But thank you for sending it out,
and it was a really good thing, so thank you.
Cllr Alan Lion - 0:29:54
I think one of the things that I've been doing as chairman is to visit town and parish councils.
And one of the things that I've actually identified is that there is now a town and parish council
newsletter or a bulletin that is actually issued monthly.
Yes.
I actually spoke to the vice chairman today and she said that she's now seen it and it's
circulated to all the members of the parish, of the town council, Epping Town Council.
And I think this is something that we need to be aware of as members. Certainly we weren't
aware of it, but again it's being produced. I think, Gary, you're involved in the production
of the newsletter?
Unfortunately.
So, Councillor Songer.
Cllr Darshan Sunger - 0:30:42
Thank you, Chairman. I just want to pick up on what Mr King just said regarding town and
parish councillors and that we have got new intake of parish and town councillors. When
we do the licencing training, I am wondering if perhaps we can have a chat afterwards if
we can include some of the parish if they wanted to attend the meeting. Would that be
possible? Is that feasible? I am not sure.
The training, I think we're going to sush on training anyway, Chair, on the meeting,
David King - 0:31:10
but I would say that the training that we would arrange for you as committee members
is very specific because it's around the decision -making process, not so much.
Obviously, you've already got a general understanding of the process and the guidance, so your training
will be in more detail and I don't think it would necessarily be appropriate for the
non -licencing committee members.
Do we actually record these training sessions or not?
I think so.
No, the training, normally we do spoke training for new members as they join, so we tend to
do that in -house, we do the training ourselves, but again we are going to touch upon the training
in a minute.
Training will come up as a separate general.
There was something I would like to raise, Chair, on that.
Can I just come in first?
Cllr Alan Lion - 0:32:02
I think that there is an issue and I was involved with a resident that was
on a recent licencing application where they were very concerned about things,
but the things they were concerned about were planning.
And I think this is really, really important that the difference between licencing
and planning is understood and I can see
that you've actually covered it quite well in this document.
but there are very distinct and separate issues, things like parking and other related issues
which relate to the actual premises is more about planning than licencing.
And I think we've got to be very clear on what that is.
Councillor Morgan.
That was one of the points I was going to bring up because we have it time,
Cllr Lisa Morgan - 0:32:50
in our area we have it time and time again, don't we?
The other thing is, I wondered, knowing we do a lot of online training as well, maybe
it's something that we've got, even if it's not a real up -to -date one, which is
specific, that we could actually allow other parish and town councils to view the online
training, or is that still very specific? I know some of it is that I've looked at.
Because it is a big thing that we do get time and time again about the difference, nobody
understands the difference between licencing and planning.
I think this is something that can be brought up at the Local Liaison Committee, where the
Cllr Alan Lion - 0:33:30
District Council do meet the Town and Parish Councils from across the District, and it
may be something to put on the agenda for the next meeting to talk about, if that would
help.
Can we leave that with you, Councillor Nylons?
Absolutely.
Thank you.
No doubt.
Okay, thank you.
Let's move on.
Unless there's any other questions.

10 Review of Licensing Sub-Committee Procedures

Right, we've exhausted that.
We are moving on.
Sorry, we need to agree that.
So let's go back to it.

9 Guidance on the Licensing Act 2003

So recommendations for approval.
Are we happy to approve this document?
Agreed. Right, thank you very much.
So we are now going back.

10 Review of Licensing Sub-Committee Procedures

Where am I looking?
It's very difficult to flick through this.
Okay.
So, we are on to Item 10.
Have we done the Item 10?
No, we're on 10.
We're on 10 now.
Review of life subcommittee procedures.
Procedures.
No, we're on 10 now.
We've done that, haven't we?
Chairman, this is just an opportunity for everybody to highlight anything that's happened
Gary Woodhall - 0:35:12
as part of the proceedings of the licencing subcommittees during the last six months since
the previous meeting of the full committee.
I know you mentioned training in the last item on the separate agenda item for training.
Yes, the separate item.
We can bring that up.
This is just about whether there's been any procedural or organisation issues at the actual
licences, subcommittee meetings themselves.
I've just noticed, Councillor Cornish, have you got any declarations?
Cllr Alan Lion - 0:35:39
No, sorry.
Okay.
So, okay.
And apologies for lateness.
Sorry?
Your apologies were given, Councillor, earlier for lateness.
Yes.
So we know that.
Right.
So moving on then.
If we have no comments on any of the subcommittee procedures, let's move on to item 11, which

11 Review of Current and Future Training Needs for the Committee

is review of current and future training needs for the committee.
Any issues that anybody wants to raise?
Councillor Sungga, you wanted to raise some issues on training?
Yeah, Chairman, it's not so.
Cllr Darshan Sunger - 0:36:24
The local liaison committee that you would be chairing,
I think the intake or the take -up of parish and town councils,
we need to encourage them to attend that.
They do.
The last one we had, we did it online
and it was significantly increased.
That's good to hear, because when I used to chair it,
it used to be very, very poor attendance.
But just going back to what Mr. King was saying,
it would be helpful, I think,
I think if town parish councils understood a very basic understanding of licencing, like
the chairman just said, about planning and licencing the difference, there is a crossover
and they think that if you get one, you get the other sort of thing.
So I think maybe we need to look into that and see if we can give some sort of basic
training.
What it does is it stops any miscommunication within the community about what is happening.
So if there's a premises that's been opened,
the word gets out, because if they've gone for planning,
and we've had that in Tuguel as well,
where they've gone for planning for something,
and then planning for the actual building,
compared to planning for the licence
or selling for alcohol.
I just think that there might be something
that we need to look at, perhaps,
the parish and town especially.
David King - 0:37:44
That's the kind of the main thrust,
the initial guidance that we prepared.
it's quite detailed that we will again circulate it.
I'd be quite happy to speak to town and parish councils directly if there are those that
feel that additional training and I'd be happy to meet with them as well to provide some
training on that basis.
It's just going back to training in general for the committee, I am actually looking at
potentially getting some free training from a law firm that we've used previously on teams
for committee members, but again, that training will be around decision -making and so on.
It wouldn't necessarily go in – the legislation under the Licencing Act is huge, but as a
committee, obviously, we need to kind of focus it on the decision -making, what can and can't
be considered really.
So I think we might need to look at more generalised training, which I'm happy to provide to
the town and parish councils, but that's something I'm happy to discuss outside.
I think it's something that we will bring up at local council liaison meetings to get
Cllr Alan Lion - 0:38:48
a view as to their needs.
I don't know that we actually see that many representations, not much representation of
the town and parish council on licencing.
We do get the odd representation.
David King - 0:39:06
We had one recently, but that was withdrawn, but that was through negotiation with the
applicant.
And generally, we are on hand to give advice, and I know myself, I quite often speak to
the parish clerks and town clerks.
So on a needs basis?
On a needs basis to give them the advice.
Just going back to the point that I think it was Councillor Morgan made about the online
training, there is training available on litmus on the Licencing Act.
I don't know if I assume all Councillors have access to that, but they certainly can.
There's also some general guidance notes that I can send round from the local government
association for Councillors on its licence in Hamburg and stuff like that.
So I'm more than happy to circulate that information.
That's exactly what I was referring to.
I think as long as we've got that information to town and parish councils, then the clerks,
if they are doing their job properly, would actually share that with the rest of the parish
councils.
I attended one particular parish and they didn't know that that information was available,
Cllr Darshan Sunger - 0:40:06
so it may be something that we need to sort of send out to not just those that requested
but I don't know how we would get that information out to town parish councils.
Because one particular parish that I won't name, they said they were paying for their
own training for the plan, that's for planning, but I'm just saying just generally what we
can provide through litmus.
So I think something that we need to look at, but we'll explore that.
Thank you.
Okay.
Councillor Morgan.
Sorry.
Yes.
Cllr Alan Lion - 0:40:35
Cllr Lisa Morgan - 0:40:38
Obviously, we do get online training, but my point was that maybe we could see if the
Town of the Parish councils could have a look at online training for some of these
things that we do for licencing, because I thought they were quite easy to follow.
And I just think if you know nothing at all about licencing, you have a look at one
of the basic ones that we do, and they're really good.
It would give people really good sort of basic idea how they go, but I don't know
if we're allowed to share them more.
When you say the town parish council, do you mean the councillors or are you talking
David King - 0:41:09
about the officers? So, yes, so the councillors.
The councillors and actually the officers.
Yeah, so my understanding is all councillors would have access to litmus and therefore
they'd have access to the licencing trainings on there. You wouldn't have to be a subcommittee
member to be able to do that, but I believe there'll be a number of courses and you just
tick on the ones that you can post in the city.
I did know as a parish counsellor you could do it. We've never been advised of that.
Well, I assume as counsellors obviously when you become a new counsellor there's information
that's given through the training and I can look into that and find out if you've got access to it.
Thank you very much.
That's okay.
Okay, anything further on that one?
Cllr Alan Lion - 0:41:43
Right, so item 12, any other business?

12 Any Other Business

No, Chairman.

13 Matters Arising

Any matters arising to be considered in respect of the Councillor's licencing function not
covered elsewhere on the agenda?
Councillor Milgrom.
Cllr Lisa Morgan - 0:42:02
Yes, Councillor Sungga did mention something about the Chair not being here.
Maybe we should have a vice -chair, but I'm sure he can highlight that better, as it was
his suggestion in the beginning.
Well, that's something that we can consider at the next meeting, if that is when the Chairman
is available. Thank you. It's not mine to decide. Council
is something to bring it up. It's a good idea. Yeah. Okay. So, Gary.
Cllr Alan Lion - 0:42:29
Yeah. I mean, if you're talking about vice chair of the subcommittee, the main committee,
Gary Woodhall - 0:42:32
that is a council appointment. So it's part of the recommendations from the appointments
panel to council. So if the licencing committee want to make a recommendation to the council,
That's absolutely fine, but obviously you could appoint a temporary vice chairman for
each meeting and that obviously could be the same person.
If you want it to be formalised, it would have to go to Council, I'm afraid.
We just simply didn't get any nominations.
I think the person that was going to do it then decided that they didn't want to do licencing
full stop.
So...
In fairness, we've never had this before, as far as I've been on the licencing committee.
Cllr Darshan Sunger - 0:43:12
Cllr Alan Lion - 0:43:18
to be considered at the next full Council when the appointments panel meets.

14 Date of Next Meeting

Okay, so we have item 14, which is the date of the next meeting on the 15th of April at
seven o 'clock.
And with that, unless there's any other questions.
Gary Woodhall - 0:43:40
Chairman, just to apologise for the fact that the agenda does say 15 April 2026, it should
be obviously 2027.
We can come back, but we can't.
We go forward, we can't go back.
Anyway, I close the meeting at 10 to 8.
Cllr Mandy George
District councillor for Epping West and Rural ward
Liberal Democrats
View profile Cllr Mandy George
David King
Team Manager - Licensing
Epping Forest District Council
View profile David King
Cllr Alan Lion
District councillor for Grange Hill ward
Conservative Party
View profile Cllr Alan Lion
Cllr Lisa Morgan
District councillor for Grange Hill ward
Epping Forest Independents Group
View profile Cllr Lisa Morgan
Cllr Darshan Sunger
District councillor for Chigwell with Lambourne ward
Conservative Party
View profile Cllr Darshan Sunger
Gary Woodhall
Team Manager - Democratic and Electoral Services
Epping Forest District Council
View profile Gary Woodhall